AT and rail transport in Auckland

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › AT and rail transport in Auckland - fail.

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#2044011 26-Jun-2018 11:47

kryptonjohn:

Yep I think there are apps there now for this, and there is uberPOOL for ride sharing on Uber (maybe not in NZ). It's not really a loss of freedom is it? The downside is you might not find your ride share partners agreeable and you are stuck with them for the hour.

Like a smoker in a wool coat on a wet day......

GTFO.....

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SpartanVXL

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#2044025 26-Jun-2018 12:06

I agree with Linuxluver, with the PT available + uber I see a lot of the mate's siblings not bother with cars or licenses to drive them. They have better things to spend their money on :)

Some of them for career choices are exclusively choosing places that also have this in place eg. London, Sydney, Japan, Korea.

debo:
LOL, JAFFAs

"Lol, country wombats" /s

Really though, with the growth/modernisation Auckland is having it really needs to play catchup with other cities around the world that have dealt with the same problem. Locals really do need to look outside the bubble of NZ to see that attitudes need to change to accommodate what's happening.

kryptonjohn

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#2044034 26-Jun-2018 12:31

SpartanVXL: I agree with Linuxluver, with the PT available + uber I see a lot of the mate's siblings not bother with cars or licenses to drive them. They have better things to spend their money on :) Some of them for career choices are exclusively choosing places that also have this in place eg. London, Sydney, Japan, Korea.
debo:

LOL, JAFFAs

"Lol, country wombats" /s Really though, with the growth/modernisation Auckland is having it really needs to play catchup with other cities around the world that have dealt with the same problem. Locals really do need to look outside the bubble of NZ to see that attitudes need to change to accommodate what's happening.

This is an interesting generational change. When I were a kid about a hundred years ago cars were king, and myself and pretty much everyone I knew went and got our *unrestricted* driver's licences as soon as we turned *15*. Nowadays, my oldest had to be cajoled along to get his restricted licence by the time he was 17. He just wasn't that interested as he's used to the bus (school) and has a "dependent" Uber account linked to my account for emergencies and times that doesn't suit. Of course he doesn't yet have to get kids to weekend sports, move family about on vacations, shift trailer loads of stuff etc etc.

That said, we persevered with getting him over the restricted licence line and have corrupted his soul as he now does see the benefit of being able to drive himself to things from time to time.

irongarment

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#2044084 26-Jun-2018 13:24

Can't you tap the HOP card twice? Once to let your wife through the barrier, then again to let yourself through?

Benoire

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#2044088 26-Jun-2018 13:30

irongarment: Can't you tap the HOP card twice? Once to let your wife through the barrier, then again to let yourself through?

No, it doesn't finalise the transaction until you exit at another station or after 30 minutes so tagging again would effectively tag you out meaning you'll pay maximum fare on exit assuming gates, or if picked up by an insepctor on the train.

kryptonjohn

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#2044094 26-Jun-2018 13:35

irongarment: Can't you tap the HOP card twice? Once to let your wife through the barrier, then again to let yourself through?

No that just cancels the tag-on.

According to my kids you can double tag on a friend on the bus though. Not sure if you have to double tag-off or it just means that dad ends up paying for an untagged-off ride!

Benoire

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#2044099 26-Jun-2018 13:40

kryptonjohn:

irongarment: Can't you tap the HOP card twice? Once to let your wife through the barrier, then again to let yourself through?

No that just cancels the tag-on.

According to my kids you can double tag on a friend on the bus though. Not sure if you have to double tag-off or it just means that dad ends up paying for an untagged-off ride!

If you double tag a bus, you get charged a single zone fare but as the exits are often at the back the driver cannot see that you haven't tagged off at the end of journey and therefore you can get off the bus without tagging... The busier train stations have gates which means you can't do that.

irongarment

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#2044101 26-Jun-2018 13:41

Ok. Then that's another fail. I was on vacation recently and on public transport you could do exactly that. It means I bought only one card and used it for two people.

Another country I used to live in would work with contactless credit cards. You could buy a prepaid card, or just use your credit card. All journeys during the month were totalised and appeared on your credit card statement as a single line item on your next bill. No fee. Not only that, but using a card was slightly cheaper than cash for any particular journey. On buses you can tell the driver how many people to charge for, and you tap the card once. On trains, one person, one card.

It seems to me that NZ either suffers greatly from not-invented-here syndrome, or people just have no idea what is possible. Coupled with the attitude that we should have as many people clipping the ticket as possible without adding value it's no surprise things are how they are.

Linuxluver

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#2044109 26-Jun-2018 13:55

irongarment: Can't you tap the HOP card twice? Once to let your wife through the barrier, then again to let yourself through?

I have two HOP cards for the odd occasion I go somewhere with someone who hasn't got one. Only one trip at a time on a card.

Costs me $5 + $10 credit...and keeps the wheels of life greased and smoothly turning.

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Benoire

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#2044110 26-Jun-2018 13:58

Reply to Irongarment above:

Not really, its just a consequence of zonal fares and not a single fare price per bus ridden. In london, the bus cost was 1 pound no matter where you went due to the subsidy on PT, here in Auckland we're blssed with a high farebox recovery and so a zonal system was applied, hence the need to tag on and off on all modes. There is no way for the system to understand whether you where tagging on or off at the beginning of the journey without assuming you made a mistake boarding the vehicle, telling the driver how many people makes a mockery of contactless systems by making all users saying how many rather than just tapping and going and this just adds to passenger delay.. Have you seen the NEX buses sometimes and the delays caused by mixed payment methods and single boarding locations, it adds quite a bit of time.

trig42

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#2044111 26-Jun-2018 14:01

irongarment: Ok. Then that's another fail. I was on vacation recently and on public transport you could do exactly that. It means I bought only one card and used it for two people.

Another country I used to live in would work with contactless credit cards. You could buy a prepaid card, or just use your credit card. All journeys during the month were totalised and appeared on your credit card statement as a single line item on your next bill. No fee. Not only that, but using a card was slightly cheaper than cash for any particular journey. On buses you can tell the driver how many people to charge for, and you tap the card once. On trains, one person, one card.

It seems to me that NZ either suffers greatly from not-invented-here syndrome, or people just have no idea what is possible. Coupled with the attitude that we should have as many people clipping the ticket as possible without adding value it's no surprise things are how they are.

The London tube (and buses) use contactless cards (or you can buy an Oyster Card - similar to HOP).

We were there in May, and it worked really well with our Loaded for Travel cards (I saw people using Apple Pay too). It is clever enough to recognise your card, so it has capped daily amounts (I think, once you've spent about 9 Pounds, it doesn't charge you any more).

I have read that here in NZ they are going the same way country-wide - either a prepaid card like Oyster, or contactless credit/debit cards (in which case, phones would work too). I think Wellington gets it first

Benoire

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#2044112 26-Jun-2018 14:03

Stupidly we've had HOP now for several years and have gneerally ironed out the bugs but NZTA and Wellington have chosen an alternative path leading to us having to spend a lot more money to integrate the new approach rather than settling on the originally agreed HOP system, which to be honest is a derivation of Oyster and others developed by Thale anyway.

irongarment

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#2044127 26-Jun-2018 14:27

Benoire:
Reply to Irongarment above:

Not really, its just a consequence of zonal fares and not a single fare price per bus ridden. In london, the bus cost was 1 pound no matter where you went due to the subsidy on PT, here in Auckland we're blssed with a high farebox recovery and so a zonal system was applied, hence the need to tag on and off on all modes. There is no way for the system to understand whether you where tagging on or off at the beginning of the journey without assuming you made a mistake boarding the vehicle, telling the driver how many people makes a mockery of contactless systems by making all users saying how many rather than just tapping and going and this just adds to passenger delay.. Have you seen the NEX buses sometimes and the delays caused by mixed payment methods and single boarding locations, it adds quite a bit of time.

I think you misunderstood. It is only necessary to tell the driver if you have more than one person in your group and you want to put them on the same card. Normally it's one person, one card, and the only delay is caused by cash. Even then it's no problem. The driver presses a button for the fare amount and a machine counts the passenger's money and spits out change.

It seems to me that all of these problems have been solved somewhere else.

I guess some of you are going to choke when I tell you one city I visited had the same price for every trip! That's right. You pay to get 'in' to the transport system, then travel as far or as long as you like.

Benoire

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#2044130 26-Jun-2018 14:39

irongarment:

I think you misunderstood. It is only necessary to tell the driver if you have more than one person in your group and you want to put them on the same card. Normally it's one person, one card, and the only delay is caused by cash. Even then it's no problem. The driver presses a button for the fare amount and a machine counts the passenger's money and spits out change.

It seems to me that all of these problems have been solved somewhere else.

I guess some of you are going to choke when I tell you one city I visited had the same price for every trip! That's right. You pay to get 'in' to the transport system, then travel as far or as long as you like.

ok fair enough, we don't have a system like this as this was not part of the back end design... Oyster doesn't do this either for London and this was the model used, its real value is for visitors so you don't have to purchase a full card for them but if you live in the city then you really will need your own for ease of use.

Lots of countries have a single set fee, but that requires different lesiglation etc. In NZ all PT prices are controlled via the NZTA farebox recovery model and presently it sits at about 50% meaning that we cannot offer a single set price or even lower prices, this would require NZTA and MOT to change their views which they are not, in order words PT is subsidised by up to 50% of the total journey cost by the NLTF and rate base.

Handsomedan

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#2044184 26-Jun-2018 16:10

My issue with the Hop Card is the very thing that has been pointed out earlier several times...it's lack of smarts.

I want to use PT - I take the family to the Park n Ride. I ssume for the sake of this story that there is parking available.

We go to the counter, because there are several of us, "Sorry - we only top up cards or sell cards. Please pay on the bus."

Bus arrives - I have lots of credit on the Hop Card - I tag on. Then I say to the Bus Driver, "One adult and two children to the City, please." then hand him my Hop Card - he says, "Tag on the disc on top of my macine thing".

I disciver that it has just cost me $5.50 for my wife and $3.00 each for the kids. "But I am using a Hop Card, sir" I politely say to the driver.

"Cash fare", he says. "Nope - Hop Card", I say. "Nope, Cash Fare", he says.

So - long story short - the system doesn;t work - I would have to buy the family a HOP card each ($5.00 each?) then top them up for the occasional journey on the bus, which is awkward, inconvenient and uncomfortable, by comparison to my car, which would cost maybe $5 in petrol and $8 in parking during the weekend to get to the city.

Where's the incentive to use Public Transport? There isn't one.

It's great for a daily commute to the city, if you can get a park near a bus station, but hopeless for any other occasion...

Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan is also still somewhat perplexed...

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