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MikeB4
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  #2047179 2-Jul-2018 08:11
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If it is built to the same standard as the Kapiti  Expressway it wont be worth paying extra for. The Expressway after only a year looks more like a 20 year old B road. The tax payer is due a refund on that project


Geektastic
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  #2047181 2-Jul-2018 08:12
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The toll would really be no different from Auckland's fuel tax.

Personally I'm fine with tolls. Peage roads in France for example are spectacular. I'd happily pay $100 each way to drive to Auckland on roads like that.





 
 
 
 


tdgeek
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  #2047183 2-Jul-2018 08:17
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lokhor:

 

I'm fine with it being a toll highway, however it will likely charge the same amount for motorcycles, which hardly seems fair considering the reduced wear and tear on the road, reduced level of congestion and also limited ability to carry passengers.

 

 

What is a typical toll these days for NZ? $1? $2 $3?


MikeB4
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  #2047187 2-Jul-2018 08:23
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The average toll would be circa $3.00. That would mean say an additional $30 per week commute increase. The PPP funding model under which this project was funded was to remove the need for tolling the road.


trig42
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  #2047188 2-Jul-2018 08:23
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There are no Toll road in NZ where there isn't a viable free alternative.

 

Transmission Gully will be no exception.

 

A lot of people will still use it, taking cars off the free route, making it fine for people who don't mind taking a bit longer.

 

It is all about how much your time is worth (and the extra fuel, potentially). Trucks will use it, because the time savings and fuel savings will pay for the toll.

 

Ig you drive through Europe, Australia etc., a lot of roads are tolled, but they are heavily used because they are a) good roads, and b) quicker than not using them.


GV27
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  #2047190 2-Jul-2018 08:29
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MikeB4: @GV27 Wellingtonians are not being precious. There is a big difference between the Puhoi toll section and Transmission Gully. Transmission Gully will be the main daily commuter arterial route between a large population centre and the Wellington and Hutt City. It is also the main frieght route from the inter island. It would be like tolling West or South Auckland to the City.

 

Last time I checked, SH1 was part of the main freight route in the country too. Or is Wellington just special and too good for user-pays? 


trig42
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  #2047193 2-Jul-2018 08:35
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Geektastic: The toll would really be no different from Auckland's fuel tax.

Personally I'm fine with tolls. Peage roads in France for example are spectacular. I'd happily pay $100 each way to drive to Auckland on roads like that.

 

They are brilliant roads. 130km/h, and well built.

 

I have no problems paying the tolls on them (and they are a lot more than the tolls for TG will be).


 
 
 
 


UHD

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  #2047196 2-Jul-2018 08:42
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Wiggum:

 

UHD:

 

The road has already been paid for out of taxes for a half century.

 

 

If that were true then surely we would not be borrowing money to get it build? Or need the private sector to chip in to help pay for it.

 

 

 

 

The private sector investment was accepted in order to remove the need for tolls on the road. A bit disingenuous for Labour to now say they are necessary and always part of the plan.


MikeB4
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  #2047198 2-Jul-2018 08:53
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GV27:

 

MikeB4: @GV27 Wellingtonians are not being precious. There is a big difference between the Puhoi toll section and Transmission Gully. Transmission Gully will be the main daily commuter arterial route between a large population centre and the Wellington and Hutt City. It is also the main frieght route from the inter island. It would be like tolling West or South Auckland to the City.

 

Last time I checked, SH1 was part of the main freight route in the country too. Or is Wellington just special and too good for user-pays? 

 

 

 

 

Tip, try and discuss without being snotty.

 

SH1, runs right through the centre of Wellington from the planes north and south. It is the main route for trade for ALL NZ so any additional costs added at Wellington will affect prices for ALL NZ. 


tdgeek
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  #2047199 2-Jul-2018 08:58
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UHD:

 

Wiggum:

 

UHD:

 

The road has already been paid for out of taxes for a half century.

 

 

If that were true then surely we would not be borrowing money to get it build? Or need the private sector to chip in to help pay for it.

 

 

 

 

The private sector investment was accepted in order to remove the need for tolls on the road. A bit disingenuous for Labour to now say they are necessary and always part of the plan.

 

 

Not really

 

"We were critical of the previous Government's financing of Transmission Gully through a public-private partnership because it increased costs over the life of the project," he said.

 

"Now that the project is going ahead under the former Government's arrangements, it may make sense to establish a revenue source to off-set some of those costs."

 

 

 

As I see it, the framework of the deal has already been locked down, and that included a toll. Its a bit late now to re do the deal. NZTA also recommended a tool as if it was too easy and cheap to use the new road, more will use it, and take away public transport use, then public transport loses viability, and the new road takes on traffic that did not previously exist. Against that is another cost to the public to pay for the toll


GV27
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  #2047201 2-Jul-2018 09:00
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MikeB4:

 

Tip, try and discuss without being snotty.

 

SH1, runs right through the centre of Wellington from the planes north and south. It is the main route for trade for ALL NZ so any additional costs added at Wellington will affect prices for ALL NZ. 

 

 

Again, there is a toll road in North Auckland on SH1. For all intents and purposes, it is the same road. I'm asking what makes Wellington special, given that trucks filling up in Auckland (also the main economic centre of the country) are subjected to a regional fuel tax; solely in place because the Govt didn't want to pay Auckland back for the decades they stripped out more than they put back in.


MikeB4
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  #2047203 2-Jul-2018 09:04
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GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

Tip, try and discuss without being snotty.

 

SH1, runs right through the centre of Wellington from the planes north and south. It is the main route for trade for ALL NZ so any additional costs added at Wellington will affect prices for ALL NZ. 

 

 

Again, there is a toll road in North Auckland on SH1. For all intents and purposes, it is the same road. I'm asking what makes Wellington special, given that trucks filling up in Auckland (also the main economic centre of the country) are subjected to a regional fuel tax; solely in place because the Govt didn't want to pay Auckland back for the decades they stripped out more than they put back in.

 

 

Puhoi is not the main transport hub for NZ. ALL transport from the North to the South does not go through there and vice versa.That is the difference.


MikeB4
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  #2047207 2-Jul-2018 09:08
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

As I see it, the framework of the deal has already been locked down, and that included a toll. Its a bit late now to re do the deal. NZTA also recommended a tool as if it was too easy and cheap to use the new road, more will use it, and take away public transport use, then public transport loses viability, and the new road takes on traffic that did not previously exist. Against that is another cost to the public to pay for the toll

 

 

The National Party transport spokesman has said that the funding model used when the green light was given for the road was that toll charges would be avoided. Now we are looking at a double hit with toll charges and a new excise(tax) mooted by local bodies. All these new transport costs are going to put pressure on the CPI as these costs will be passed onto consumers, a triple hit.


sbiddle
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  #2047210 2-Jul-2018 09:16
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Handle9:

 

It doesn't appear to be a huge shock - it appears to have been signaled for quite some time.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10615848

 

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Our-Work/Documents/Transmission-Gully-PPP-Cabinet-Nov-2012.pdf

 

 

 

 

In the early days Transmission Gully was going to be a toll road simply because it went nowhere for ~40 years until it ended up being funded by National.

 

The road will end up being a white elephant if it does become a toll road because plenty of people will simply choose to use the current route. All it will take is ~20% of traffic to be removed at peak hour (people who will opt to use the toll road) and the current SH1 route will have much of the congestion removed.

 

 

 

 


DarthKermit
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  #2047211 2-Jul-2018 09:18
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Transmission Gully will be a great alternative to get back out of Welly, but I'd hate to see the congestion it's gonna cause south of the new Linden interchange. There won't be any extra vehicles in total going into Welly but many more of them will be travelling into Welly at the same time. Do these road planners not realise this?


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