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  Reply # 2054798 12-Jul-2018 09:59
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I know that the Airport Flyer is a privately run service.  With the Snapper card at the moment, is there a Snapper discount or is it the same price as cash?




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  Reply # 2056641 15-Jul-2018 20:09
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rayonline:

 

I know that the Airport Flyer is a privately run service.  With the Snapper card at the moment, is there a Snapper discount or is it the same price as cash? 

 

It's discounted, although the page at https://www.metlink.org.nz/tickets-and-fares/airport/ has now disappeared.


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  Reply # 2056695 15-Jul-2018 20:56
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Interestingly SkyBus in Auckland accepts HOP despite not being subsidised by AT. For HOP payments, SkyBus simply charges a single flat rate rate for all pax (regardless of distance or tertiary/child concessions etc) and doesn't take into account transfers discounts (not applicable these days, but I don't think they ever did during the time when HOP was set up for the old fare structure plus a 50c transfer discount). So basically they just debit the same amount for all pax no matter what. Not sure why this can't be done for the Airport Flyer (even if it means dumping the previous fare arrangement and moving to a simplified or even a flat rate arrangement to simplify the programming that has to be done).


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  Reply # 2056697 15-Jul-2018 21:12
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Dickheads


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  Reply # 2084243 5-Sep-2018 11:00
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This whole story of Snapper is just one big mistake. 

 

There is absolutely no need in some special "transport" card. 

 

Just use regular visa paywave or similar technology from mastercard and stop wasting millions on Snapper. Pretty much any new CC issued in NZ has it. The money could be better spend on drivers and vehicles. 


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  Reply # 2084248 5-Sep-2018 11:12
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spoonboy:

This whole story of Snapper is just one big mistake. 

 

There is absolutely no need in some special "transport" card. 

 

Just use regular visa paywave or similar technology from mastercard and stop wasting millions on Snapper. Pretty much any new CC issued in NZ has it. The money could be better spend on drivers and vehicles. 

 

 

That tech didn't exist when Snapper came out. At the time Snapper was well ahead of the game, and things could have been a lot different if it had been successful in its expansion to Auckland. Personally I don't really want to be using my actual bank card as contactless payments for public transport, it's highly susceptible to theft in that use case.  At least with Snapper you're only topping up a small amount onto the card at a time (generally).  Certainly Apple Pay and the like are good candidates though.  

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  Reply # 2084257 5-Sep-2018 11:26
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spoonboy:

 

This whole story of Snapper is just one big mistake. 

 

There is absolutely no need in some special "transport" card. 

 

Just use regular visa paywave or similar technology from mastercard and stop wasting millions on Snapper. Pretty much any new CC issued in NZ has it. The money could be better spend on drivers and vehicles. 

 

 

I don't know where to start debating this but your comment shows a complete lack of knowledge of how things actually work. I could probably write a few thousand words, but don't have time. 

 

The physical Snapper card (or the AT Hop card) is a small part of the entire system. Behind the scenes you have systems processing all the transactions and a clearing house.

 

Right now you *do* need a prepaid card because the move towards tokenisation takes time. It's the reason why so few places have migrated to it at the moment, and the challenges that it poses are also complex.

 

Even with TfL who are the biggest player in the world when it comes to tokenisation and the Paywave/Paspass transactions, contactless makes hit 40% of casual use transactions when I was in the UK in July last year. That only represents *casual* transactions which in turn only make up around 1/3 of total Oyster transactions because there are significant challenges moving existing products and monthly/yearly passes to a tokenisation solution.

 

In Sydney Cubic are moving Opal towards tokenisation and trailing it at present. Likewise with Brisbane and Melbourne are moving, but need to overcome the challenges that are present.

 

Here in NZ the new NZTA based solution that Wellington will adopt first (followed by the rest of NZ and eventually Auckland to replace AT Hop) will be tokenisation based. Until some major stumbling blocks are overcome in the NZ market including credit card interchange fees that are upwards of 3% for blended transactions even with significant volumes, nothing will happen quickly. Labour have been very slow at releasing the report into interchange fees which was due just before the election last year and has then been delayed multiple times.

 

Snapper have built a solution to tie a bank account to a card to avoid the limitations of credit card interchange fees which is being looked at by several players overseas who use Snapper's technology (remembering that much of Snapper's business is elsewhere in the world where their IP is deployed).

 

Ridebank is currently being trialed by Snapper and is now a large public trial. It allows you to link your credit card to a Snapper card and uses tokenisation to charge you weekly for all your travels.

 

 


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  Reply # 2084259 5-Sep-2018 11:42
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sbiddle:

 

Here in NZ the new NZTA based solution that Wellington will adopt first (followed by the rest of NZ and eventually Auckland to replace AT Hop) will be tokenisation based. Until some major stumbling blocks are overcome in the NZ market including credit card interchange fees that are upwards of 3% for blended transactions even with significant volumes, nothing will happen quickly. Labour have been very slow at releasing the report into interchange fees which was due just before the election last year and has then been delayed multiple times.

 

 

I recently heard ANZ advertising 0.9% fees for paywave.  Would that be the interchange fees they are talking about or an additional fee of some kind?





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  Reply # 2084263 5-Sep-2018 11:52
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MikeAqua:

 

sbiddle:

 

Here in NZ the new NZTA based solution that Wellington will adopt first (followed by the rest of NZ and eventually Auckland to replace AT Hop) will be tokenisation based. Until some major stumbling blocks are overcome in the NZ market including credit card interchange fees that are upwards of 3% for blended transactions even with significant volumes, nothing will happen quickly. Labour have been very slow at releasing the report into interchange fees which was due just before the election last year and has then been delayed multiple times.

 

 

I recently heard ANZ advertising 0.9% fees for paywave.  Would that be the interchange fees they are talking about or an additional fee of some kind?

 

 

0.9% for debit cards when you also have your merchant accounts with ANZ.

 

Most people have credit cards, not debit cards, so that figure is significantly higher and the deal isn't quite as good as ANZ advertising makes it sound. Interchange rates are all public and listed on the credit card and bank sites - a premium (Platinum) card is still well over 2% just in raw interchange before any processing costs or margin are added.

 

If you're a retailer you may have a choice of blended or non blended. Most companies still opt for blended as it offers them fixed certainty rather than paying different rates for different cards.

 

 


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  Reply # 2084271 5-Sep-2018 12:14
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sbiddle:

 

Most people have credit cards, not debit cards,

 

 

Would that statement be more accurate if it were "most people use credit cards, not debit cards".  I imagine anyone with a bank card has a debit card nowadays don't they?  Are banks still issuing plain old non-debit cards anymore?


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  Reply # 2084290 5-Sep-2018 12:56
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gehenna:

sbiddle:


Most people have credit cards, not debit cards,



Would that statement be more accurate if it were "most people use credit cards, not debit cards".  I imagine anyone with a bank card has a debit card nowadays don't they?  Are banks still issuing plain old non-debit cards anymore?



I received a new westpac eftpos card recently. Before I just use online banking. It was not a debit card. Debit cards also have an annual fee. All mine are not. I also recently got a replacement anz eftpos card due to they not send me a replacement when it expired. Its a non debit card.

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  Reply # 2084292 5-Sep-2018 12:58
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gehenna:

sbiddle:


Most people have credit cards, not debit cards,



Would that statement be more accurate if it were "most people use credit cards, not debit cards".  I imagine anyone with a bank card has a debit card nowadays don't they?  Are banks still issuing plain old non-debit cards anymore?



All the nz banks still issue old style EFTPOS (Plus/Cirrus) cards. They use the Debit card as a revenue generator by charging $10 a year for them plus getting a cut of the interchange. So pointless for most people who can continue using the Plus/Cirrus cards for ATM/EFTPOS and credit for online purchases (and some banks even offer both on one card). Debit popular mostly with those who want to avoid credit cards such as low income people.

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  Reply # 2084300 5-Sep-2018 13:18
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I still have a regular EFTPOS card with ANZ. All the major banks still have EFTPOS cards, but are trying to push people towards debit cards because the banks actually make money out of them.

 

The target market for debit cards is really people who are ineligible for credit cards or people who don't trust themselves with credit cards because they'll get themselves into financial trouble.


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  Reply # 2084335 5-Sep-2018 13:55
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sbiddle:

 

The target market for debit cards is really people who are ineligible for credit cards or people who don't trust themselves with credit cards because they'll get themselves into financial trouble.

 

 

I have credit cards and a debit card. 

 

I use the debit card for online purchases - I transfer money in just before making the purchase.

 

 





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  Reply # 2084637 6-Sep-2018 00:11
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sbiddle:

 

spoonboy:

 

This whole story of Snapper is just one big mistake. 

 

There is absolutely no need in some special "transport" card. 

 

Just use regular visa paywave or similar technology from mastercard and stop wasting millions on Snapper. Pretty much any new CC issued in NZ has it. The money could be better spend on drivers and vehicles. 

 

 

I don't know where to start debating this but your comment shows a complete lack of knowledge of how things actually work. I could probably write a few thousand words, but don't have time. 

 

The physical Snapper card (or the AT Hop card) is a small...

 

 

Ok, I think you're wrong.  

 

As far as I can understand, you're mentioning two issues with using CC payments:

 

1. Technical aspects

 

2. Business - transaction price

 

 

 

I start with the second one. The 3% you're talking about is probably applicable to small shops, but not to big customers like supermarkets that are getting the wholesale rates. The negotiated price could be much cheaper than you think. And definitely, cheaper than costs of maintaining a team of snapper guys at the top location in Wellington CBD.  

 

Now, regarding the technology. Of course, it is not just the card, but the whole backend, hardware and software needs to be changed. But there is absolutely nothing that fundamentally prevents from using CC in metropolitan transport. In fact, it is completely opposite:

 

The Visa Global Transit Solutions team has implemented a dozen transit solutions to-date in Europe and currently has new projects underway in Asia, North America and Europe – all focused on customer propositions that reduce the hassle of using public transport. 

 

Actually, VISA is doing NFC based transport projects for more than 10 years now and the technology was available at the time when Snapper was introduced in NZ. Non standard, proprietary, not compatible with any other system, it has been chosen with no visible reasons. It is not even compatible with other systems in NZ. 

 

Using CC would bring tons of benefits both for the customers and the bus companies. May be you could spend your 1K words on arguing with this statement, rather than saying that it is not possible? If you don't know HOW to do something, it does not mean that it is impossible. Frequently, it could be quite possible and not that complex. You just need to find right people to do the job ;-). 


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