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472 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2096888 26-Sep-2018 15:03
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Australia isn't a particually good fit for EV's. While these vary by region, the below are general statements:

 

  • Cheaper petrol/diesel than NZ
  • More expensive power than NZ
  • Dirty power grid (lots of coal /gas)
  • Recent major issues with power grid stability.
  • Hot temperatures. (Most popular EV in the world is know to have very fast battery degradation in hot temperatures.
  • Less environmental concern, both at individual level, and national level.
  • Larger travel distances than NZ, few other countries have active markets for extended range fuel tanks as stock ranges of 700+km are deemed insufficient. Some vehicles like the Toyota prado are available from the factory with 150L of fuel tanks. (NZ spec is 87L), rated fuel consumption is 8.0L/100km
  • Being phased out, but substantial historic promotion, and subsidies / tax breaks for LPG as the alternative fuel of choice.
  • Less infrastructure - No charge.net over the ditch.

 

 

That said, I think the NZ EV scene would look very bleak if it wasn't for the used imports. I think the large number of used imports have legitimized EV's, building interests that brands like Kia, Tesla etc are capitalizing on. 


81 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 2096906 26-Sep-2018 15:13
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WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

GV27:

 

WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

EV adoption will become more widespread once you can by a used EV, at a used Toyota Corolla\Ford Focus\Mazda 3 price, and the range is on par with the outgoing\conventional ICE vehicles. Of course to be able to have a used vehicle market, you need to have them purchased by someone first.

 

 

You need someone to make them at a price they can be sold at Corolla/Focus/Swift prices. Take a look at who isn't making EV hatchbacks any time soon:

 

1. Suzuki

 

2. Toyota

 

3. Ford

 

4. etc

 

I'm sure you can see where this is going. Toyota are still barking up the wrong tree with hydrogen. Ford are making a crossover EV before they make anything else. Suzuki has a hybrid but no BEV plans publicly announced.

 

 

Ford are making a EV crossover, because that's what the public want. NZer's do. Just take a look at the top 15 new cars\suv's sold YTD August

 

1 TOYOTA COROLLA
2 TOYOTA RAV4
3 MAZDA CX-5
4 KIA SPORTAGE
5 SUZUKI SWIFT
6 TOYOTA HIGHLANDER
7 MITSUBISHI OUTLANDER
8 MITSUBISHI ASX
9 NISSAN QASHQAI
10 HOLDEN CAPTIVA
11 HONDA JAZZ
12 MAZDA MAZDA3
13 HYUNDAI TUCSON
14 HYUNDAI KONA
15 VOLKSWAGEN TIGUAN

 

From here: https://www.mia.org.nz/Sales-Data/Vehicle-Sales

 

If you look in our nearest neighbor, the Aussies, it'll be a similar story there.

 

 

 

 

Just look at this list and ask yourself .Is the Toyota Corolla really the most popular car in NZ?

 

 

 

I don't believe it is and this list should just be headed up the manufacturer that sold the most of whatever type.

 

I believe car rental companies and fleet vehicles owners lease/buy them. Just sick of this car always showing up in the most sold /popular list when its not the true picture. Rental company figures should not be included in these lists. Then we would see what individuals are really buying.

 

end of rant.Sorry for going off topic and wasting your time.

 

 


 
 
 
 


3513 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2096970 26-Sep-2018 16:15
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Dinga96:

 

Just look at this list and ask yourself .Is the Toyota Corolla really the most popular car in NZ?

 

I don't believe it is and this list should just be headed up the manufacturer that sold the most of whatever type.

 

I believe car rental companies and fleet vehicles owners lease/buy them. Just sick of this car always showing up in the most sold /popular list when its not the true picture. Rental company figures should not be included in these lists. Then we would see what individuals are really buying.

 

end of rant.Sorry for going off topic and wasting your time.

 

 

Yip, they are rental fleet buys but the question is where do you draw the line??...

 

if you actually look at total vehicle sales ( not just "cars") the Two top selling vehicles in the Country are the FORD RANGER and TOYOTA HILUX

 

and 4 of the other top 10 are either Utes or Vans

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/100417840/most-popular-nz-car-for-2017-still-a-truck

 

Ford Ranger (9420)

 

Toyota Hilux (8106)

 

Toyota Corolla (7797)

 

Toyota RAV4 (4629)

 

Holden Colorado (4489)

 

Mitsubishi Triton (4070)

 

Kia Sportage (3555)

 

Mazda CX-5 (3236)

 

Nissan Navara (3055)

 

Toyota Hiace (2961)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


81 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 2096974 26-Sep-2018 16:23
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wellygary:

 

Dinga96:

 

Just look at this list and ask yourself .Is the Toyota Corolla really the most popular car in NZ?

 

I don't believe it is and this list should just be headed up the manufacturer that sold the most of whatever type.

 

I believe car rental companies and fleet vehicles owners lease/buy them. Just sick of this car always showing up in the most sold /popular list when its not the true picture. Rental company figures should not be included in these lists. Then we would see what individuals are really buying.

 

end of rant.Sorry for going off topic and wasting your time.

 

 

Yip, they are rental fleet buys but the question is where do you draw the line??...

 

if you actually look at total vehicle sales ( not just "cars") the Two top selling vehicles in the Country are the FORD RANGER and TOYOTA HILUX

 

and 4 of the other top 10 are either Utes or Vans

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/100417840/most-popular-nz-car-for-2017-still-a-truck

 

Ford Ranger (9420)

 

Toyota Hilux (8106)

 

Toyota Corolla (7797)

 

Toyota RAV4 (4629)

 

Holden Colorado (4489)

 

Mitsubishi Triton (4070)

 

Kia Sportage (3555)

 

Mazda CX-5 (3236)

 

Nissan Navara (3055)

 

Toyota Hiace (2961)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obvious solution would be to exclude rentals and the trade vehicles .Then you can say this is what the most popular car bought by individuals ,not for commercial purposes.That's where I would draw the line wellgary


2550 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2096985 26-Sep-2018 16:48
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wellygary:

 

 

 

Yeah , but if you look at Australia, their sales are even lower than NZ (even absolutely if you include PHEVS) and they have no used imports dissuading EV manufacturers.....

 

https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/how-australia-compares-globally-for-electric-vehicle-sales

 

 

I think that the Aussie is slightly different from NZ, in that Aussie has wider opener spaces to drive through. My siblings in Sydney thought nothing of driving 4-6-8 hours each way for a weekend away. With that kind of mindset, an EV in Aussie would only be considered for a city family, and then only as the family's second vehicle.

 

 


117 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 39


  Reply # 2096998 26-Sep-2018 17:17
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So, Labour campaigned on abolishing tax cuts for the wealthy and no new taxes, and are now going to introduce "rebates" for the wealthy and new "excise/ tariffs".  


472 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 214


  Reply # 2097036 26-Sep-2018 19:43
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debo:

 

So, Labour campaigned on abolishing tax cuts for the wealthy and no new taxes, and are now going to introduce "rebates" for the wealthy and new "excise/ tariffs".  

 



Unlike stuff comments, this thread has been fairly apolitical. It is important to remember that there is support for EV's on both sides of the parliament. In addition to signing the Paris accord, the previous government extended the RUC exemption, and set up the contestable fund:

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/govt-driving-switch-electric-vehicles

It appears that the current government wants to further increase support for EV's, but as the announcements have yet to be made, so we don't know what the incentives will be. I have not seen the mention of the words "rebates", or "excise/tariffs". Please note the following quote:

 

"What we're trying to do is get a package that incentivises your middle class people to be able to do that, but also ensures that low income families aren't left behind," Climate Change Minister James Shaw told The AM Show. 

 

It is clear that the government is weary of any incentives being overly regressive.


13912 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2097042 26-Sep-2018 20:02
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debo:

 

So, Labour campaigned on abolishing tax cuts for the wealthy and no new taxes, and are now going to introduce "rebates" for the wealthy and new "excise/ tariffs".  

 

 

Wrong thread. Who put on 21 new taxes in their reign? Maybe About can increase GST to 17.5% as thats been done before, 5 minutes after winning an election without mentioning that

 

Back on topic please or go to the relevant Politics thread


13912 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2097043 26-Sep-2018 20:04
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Scott3:

 

debo:

 

So, Labour campaigned on abolishing tax cuts for the wealthy and no new taxes, and are now going to introduce "rebates" for the wealthy and new "excise/ tariffs".  

 



Unlike stuff comments, this thread has been fairly apolitical. It is important to remember that there is support for EV's on both sides of the parliament. In addition to signing the pairs accord, the previous government extended the RUC exemption, and set up the contestable fund:

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/govt-driving-switch-electric-vehicles

It appears that the current government wants to further increase support for EV's, but as the announcements have yet to be made, so we don't know what the incentives will be. I have not seen the mention of the words "rebates", or "excise/tariffs". Please note the following quote:

 

"What we're trying to do is get a package that incentivises your middle class people to be able to do that, but also ensures that low income families aren't left behind," Climate Change Minister James Shaw told The AM Show. 

 

It is clear that the government is weary of any incentives being overly regressive.

 

 

Well said, this is a bi partisan issue. National supported EV, the current Govt does as well. 




995 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 185


  Reply # 2097196 27-Sep-2018 08:37
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MikeB4:

 

Peugeot are launching the 208 EV 2019. The car makers are getting onboard and momentum will gather in order for the brands to maintain market share. Planning now by the Government is vital so we are ready for the increase in demand. This is why I  believe that the incentives should not be on the car but on the charging process.

 

 

Yes, our national charging network could be a lot better, for example, in parts of the South Island. Take a look at this map

 

https://charge.net.nz/map/

 

Now say you want to travel in your EV from Hokitika to Wanaka, a distance of about 420 kms. You can charge up at Hokitika and also at Wanaka, but at present there's nothing in between!

 

So, how do you do this distance in your Nissan Leaf or even in your new Hyundai 64 kWh 400km range EV?

 

At the moment, EVs are great for driving around town and for charging up at home. But, if you are travelling long distances, particularly around the South Island, it's better to take your petrol vehicle! Which all goes to show that petrol vehicles will be around for a long while because owning just an EV is not a practical proposition quite yet!

 

 

 

 

 

 


13912 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2097198 27-Sep-2018 08:45
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frednz:

 

MikeB4:

 

Peugeot are launching the 208 EV 2019. The car makers are getting onboard and momentum will gather in order for the brands to maintain market share. Planning now by the Government is vital so we are ready for the increase in demand. This is why I  believe that the incentives should not be on the car but on the charging process.

 

 

Yes, our national charging network could be a lot better, for example, in parts of the South Island. Take a look at this map

 

https://charge.net.nz/map/

 

Now say you want to travel in your EV from Hokitika to Wanaka, a distance of about 420 kms. You can charge up at Hokitika and also at Wanaka, but at present there's nothing in between!

 

So, how do you do this distance in your Nissan Leaf or even in your new Hyundai 64 kWh 400km range EV?

 

At the moment, EVs are great for driving around town and for charging up at home. But, if you are travelling long distances, particularly around the South Island, it's better to take your petrol vehicle! Which all goes to show that petrol vehicles will be around for a long while because owning just an EV is not a practical proposition quite yet!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EV's are quite new, they are 1/4 of one percent of cars. The charge network in the NI seems good and growing, but you cant expect full NZ coverage when the market share is practically zero. Given the practically zero market share, the charge network is ahead of the game, IMHO. The other factor is those that need lots of range now are not in the market. You appear to be able to drive AKL to WLG fine. There will be black spots, I imagine that will be attended to when one day the supply exists in numbers


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2097200 27-Sep-2018 08:49
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And if you look at the map, include future and under construction, you can take that as 100% NZ coverage




995 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 185


  Reply # 2097203 27-Sep-2018 08:54
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tdgeek:

 

And if you look at the map, include future and under construction, you can take that as 100% NZ coverage

 

 

"Future" and "under construction" isn't much good for next week's trip or even next year's trip around the South Island! Other than massively expensive Teslas, the only EV that's any good for getting you from Hokitika to Wanaka is a BMW i3 with a range extender, so petrol still has a large part to play for a long time yet! Unless of course you classify a plug-in hybrid which has a range of only 50km pure electric as an EV (which is the case but produces a misleading view of what an EV is meant to be)!


13912 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2097205 27-Sep-2018 09:00
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frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

And if you look at the map, include future and under construction, you can take that as 100% NZ coverage

 

 

"Future" and "under construction" isn't much good for next week's trip or even next year's trip around the South Island! Other than massively expensive Teslas, the only EV that's any good for getting you from Hokitika to Wanaka is a BMW i3 with a range extender, so petrol still has a large part to play for a long time yet!

 

 

Until EV supplies exist in numbers, its not relevant. They aren't there to buy. So while numbers are low in terms of current sales of new EV's and probably lower for imported pre owned, people with range needs that aren't met by the network, won't buy. Sales are not affected as others will buy what is a very small number. Long time yet? How long is that? 2 years, 5 years, 10 years?  The limiting factor is supplies of cars. That will take a lot longer than a small number of under construction and future stations.


421 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 130


  Reply # 2097206 27-Sep-2018 09:01
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/107372241/ev-drivers-are-bludgers-costing-nz-roads-7m-per-year

 

Why should other motorists be subsidizing EV drivers?

 


I also personally still don't buy into electric cars as being 'great for the environment' - not yet anyway, not until they can come up with a better battery/energy storage or whatever you want to call it. Sure, lower emissions in larger cities will definitely be beneficial to that area, but if you look at the total emissions/environmental cost of manufacturing/charging an electric car, then recycling the batteries down the track, is it really any better than a normal vehicle?

 

I would love to find some 'real' info on this subject, but there is so much rubbish info and propaganda out on the web that it it hard to tell what is legit and what isn't. 


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