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4157 posts

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  # 2232172 7-May-2019 10:30
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GV27:

 

Evidence from overseas would suggest that the Teslas tend to hold their value better than anyone expected. 

 

 

Elon has said he actually wants them to increase in value over time....!?!!

 

"He also said that existing Teslas will increase in value as self-driving capabilities are added via software, and will be worth up to $250,000 within three years"

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/02/elon-musk-on-investor-call-autonomy-will-make-tesla-a-500b-company.html

 

 

 

 




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  # 2233437 9-May-2019 07:10
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https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2019/05/poll-would-you-buy-an-electric-vehicle-if-there-was-a-financial-incentive.html

 

Frome the above:

 

On Wednesday, the Government introduced the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill into Parliament to address the long-term challenges of climate change. 

 

This will create a legally binding objective to limit global warming to no more than 1.5degC with a net zero carbon approach- a plan for the next 30 years.

 

This would mean having to make changes to our lifestyles.

 

Would you buy an electric vehicle if there was a financial incentive?

 

Vote in The AM Show poll below.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2233439 9-May-2019 07:18
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That's a silly poll, for a very obvious reason

 

Poor journalism


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  # 2233450 9-May-2019 07:43
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Just watched James Shaw on the same AM Show. It would seem NZ proves problematic to do incentives for EVs due to our low wages. Maybe he needs to read this thread and not just rely on Wellington policy dudes!
For a 'silly poll', it is currently running 2 to 1 for people saying they would buy if incentivised.
I still have hope that something will be announced in the budget, even if it's just a timescale.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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  # 2233454 9-May-2019 07:54
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Dingbatt: Just watched James Shaw on the same AM Show. It would seem NZ proves problematic to do incentives for EVs due to our low wages. Maybe he needs to read this thread and not just rely on Wellington policy dudes!
For a 'silly poll', it is currently running 2 to 1 for people saying they would buy if incentivised.
I still have hope that something will be announced in the budget, even if it's just a timescale.

 

Its a silly poll

 

Why? It doesnt state the incentive, is it $5k? 10k? 20k? 

 

How can we afford to subsidise you or me? If that was decreed to be worthwhile, emissions and costs wise, then as we have well over 3 millkon light class vehicles, its also worthwhile to subsidise say 3 million or 2.5 million of them (allowing for those that cannot meet the EV use case)

 

So, say $10k minimum X 2.5 Million vehicles that's $25 Billion. $15k has been quoted here, so make that $37 Billion. Also quoted here was 2.1% reduction of emissions will cost 2.4 Billion, and that's just vehicle emissions, its not total emissions. Its a VERY high cost to achieve very little, not to mention how could NZ possibly afford 25 or 37 Billion?




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Uber Geek


  # 2233459 9-May-2019 08:13
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Dingbatt: Just watched James Shaw on the same AM Show. It would seem NZ proves problematic to do incentives for EVs due to our low wages. Maybe he needs to read this thread and not just rely on Wellington policy dudes!
For a 'silly poll', it is currently running 2 to 1 for people saying they would buy if incentivised.
I still have hope that something will be announced in the budget, even if it's just a timescale.

 

Duncan Garner asked James Shaw whether we could expect to see EV incentives this year and in particular in the 30 May Budget. Unfortunately, James gave a non-committal answer but he didn't rule out the possibility.


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  # 2233497 9-May-2019 09:55
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tdgeek:

Dingbatt: Just watched James Shaw on the same AM Show. It would seem NZ proves problematic to do incentives for EVs due to our low wages. Maybe he needs to read this thread and not just rely on Wellington policy dudes!
For a 'silly poll', it is currently running 2 to 1 for people saying they would buy if incentivised.
I still have hope that something will be announced in the budget, even if it's just a timescale.


Its a silly poll


Why? It doesnt state the incentive, is it $5k? 10k? 20k? 


How can we afford to subsidise you or me? If that was decreed to be worthwhile, emissions and costs wise, then as we have well over 3 millkon light class vehicles, its also worthwhile to subsidise say 3 million or 2.5 million of them (allowing for those that cannot meet the EV use case)


So, say $10k minimum X 2.5 Million vehicles that's $25 Billion. $15k has been quoted here, so make that $37 Billion. Also quoted here was 2.1% reduction of emissions will cost 2.4 Billion, and that's just vehicle emissions, its not total emissions. Its a VERY high cost to achieve very little, not to mention how could NZ possibly afford 25 or 37 Billion?



It's no sillier than writing a cost of $37 billion like we have to find it tomorrow. Changing a fleet of 3+ million light vehicles will take 20 years if every vehicle sold new at the moment was electric (160000 new vehicles sold in 2018). So even if 10% of those vehicles were electric, a $10K subsidy would be $160M (I think my maths is right. 16000x10000). The excise on petrol alone raises about $2.17B (3.1B litres x 70c) a year. So half the amount wasted bribing first year University students would cover the subsidy.
While the world supply of new electric vehicles will increase with time, NZ will struggle to even source 16000 new vehicles per year in the short term. Our market is too insignificant on the world stage.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

 
 
 
 


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  # 2233505 9-May-2019 10:14
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Dingbatt:
tdgeek:

 

Dingbatt: Just watched James Shaw on the same AM Show. It would seem NZ proves problematic to do incentives for EVs due to our low wages. Maybe he needs to read this thread and not just rely on Wellington policy dudes!
For a 'silly poll', it is currently running 2 to 1 for people saying they would buy if incentivised.
I still have hope that something will be announced in the budget, even if it's just a timescale.

 

 

 

Its a silly poll

 

 

 

Why? It doesnt state the incentive, is it $5k? 10k? 20k? 

 

 

 

How can we afford to subsidise you or me? If that was decreed to be worthwhile, emissions and costs wise, then as we have well over 3 millkon light class vehicles, its also worthwhile to subsidise say 3 million or 2.5 million of them (allowing for those that cannot meet the EV use case)

 

 

 

So, say $10k minimum X 2.5 Million vehicles that's $25 Billion. $15k has been quoted here, so make that $37 Billion. Also quoted here was 2.1% reduction of emissions will cost 2.4 Billion, and that's just vehicle emissions, its not total emissions. Its a VERY high cost to achieve very little, not to mention how could NZ possibly afford 25 or 37 Billion?

 



It's no sillier than writing a cost of $37 billion like we have to find it tomorrow. Changing a fleet of 3+ million light vehicles will take 20 years if every vehicle sold new at the moment was electric (160000 new vehicles sold in 2018). So even if 10% of those vehicles were electric, a $10K subsidy would be $160M (I think my maths is right. 16000x10000). The excise on petrol alone raises about $2.17B (3.1B litres x 70c) a year. So half the amount wasted bribing first year University students would cover the subsidy.
While the world supply of new electric vehicles will increase with time, NZ will struggle to even source 16000 new vehicles per year in the short term. Our market is too insignificant on the world stage.

 

If spending 37 billion is too expensive and gives a low return om emissions, then so does subsidiing one vehicle. Its too much for too little. Why would we spend 2.4B to save 2.1% of vehicle emissions??

 

I support business options they allow instant cashflow benefits and not handing cash out that we dont have. They will turn into use vehicles much sooner than consumer brand new cars

 

Consumers have a benefit, fuel price cost, no need to subsidise

 

Id rather get us 100% renewable with hydro first


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  # 2233553 9-May-2019 11:20
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Fully agree with regards to hydro. But the greens dont want to do that, because they are on the record as campaigning against large hydro generation projects. (lookup project Aqua during the Helen Clark Labour / greens government)

They dont want to be attacked by National (or by a possible National sponsored environmental party). So the greens are trying to just keep quiet about it. As they dont want to be questioned on why they opposed renewable generation. And as a result caused far higher carbon emissions, forced everyone to pay more for electricity, and sent money overseas to pay for imported coal.

According to the green party, managing political risk is more important than helping the environment.





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  # 2233557 9-May-2019 11:30
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Aredwood: Fully agree with regards to hydro. But the greens dont want to do that, because they are on the record as campaigning against large hydro generation projects. (lookup project Aqua during the Helen Clark Labour / greens government)

They dont want to be attacked by National (or by a possible National sponsored environmental party). So the greens are trying to just keep quiet about it. As they dont want to be questioned on why they opposed renewable generation. And as a result caused far higher carbon emissions, forced everyone to pay more for electricity, and sent money overseas to pay for imported coal.

According to the green party, managing political risk is more important than helping the environment.

 

Exactly right. They are holding up posters, ban this, ban that, while others read the book and work towards the best outcome. Best outcome is 75 square miles less foliage per each hydro installation and reducing FF . Plus if we all get EVs who is going to power those? Coal most likely to make up the shortfall ?


4157 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2233630 9-May-2019 12:38
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Aredwood: Fully agree with regards to hydro. But the greens dont want to do that, because they are on the record as campaigning against large hydro generation projects. (lookup project Aqua during the Helen Clark Labour / greens government)

 

Campaigning against Hydro and Dams in general is at the core of the green party, Their predecessor the Values Party were formed on the back of the "Save Manapouri" movement.

 

In recent times they have opposed Mokihinui, Waimea, Ruataniwha  and  the list goes on. 

 

 

 

 

 

 




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  # 2233756 9-May-2019 14:44
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frednz:

 

Dingbatt: Just watched James Shaw on the same AM Show. It would seem NZ proves problematic to do incentives for EVs due to our low wages. Maybe he needs to read this thread and not just rely on Wellington policy dudes!
For a 'silly poll', it is currently running 2 to 1 for people saying they would buy if incentivised.
I still have hope that something will be announced in the budget, even if it's just a timescale.

 

Duncan Garner asked James Shaw whether we could expect to see EV incentives this year and in particular in the 30 May Budget. Unfortunately, James gave a non-committal answer but he didn't rule out the possibility.

 

 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/james-shaw-won-t-say-when-electric-vehicle-incentives-will-come.html

 

Extracts from the above:

 

Climate Change Minister James Shaw says he can't give a date for electric vehicle (EV) incentives, as he's disappointed people before.

 

Speaking to The AM Show Shaw said the incentives are more complex than they appear as New Zealand's car market is different to other countries.

 

But the Government is definitely looking into something.

 

"I've promised dates before and I've overshot them, so I won't say that, but Government is actively looking at a package."

 

Kiwis tend to buy cheaper, second hand, gas-guzzling vehicles, which means it's harder to follow in the footsteps of other countries that have robust incentive schemes.

 

"The New Zealand car market is so completely different to Japan or Norway where you've seen a lot of strides on this," Shaw said.

 

Shaw said any incentives have to be carefully introduced.

 

"There are times that I think that we just need to kind of crack on a bit, that we tend to over-analyse, but it is important because there are distributional impacts.

 

"The Productivity Commission report that came out last year emphasised this point in particular, that we can do this, but we need to be very cautious about the impact."

 

The AM Show host Duncan Garner asked if there would be anything in the budget on it, but Shaw wouldn't say.

 

"I can't talk about it, first rule of budget is you don't [talk about it]."

 

 


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  # 2233759 9-May-2019 14:47
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The last lines spells it out. I foresee business subsidies that makes so much sense, and not cash subsidies


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  # 2233775 9-May-2019 15:21
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tdgeek:

 

The last lines spells it out. I foresee business subsidies that makes so much sense, and not cash subsidies

 

 

I really hope they don't. Incentives for individuals is what I'm hoping for.


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  # 2233777 9-May-2019 15:26
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Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

The last lines spells it out. I foresee business subsidies that makes so much sense, and not cash subsidies

 

 

I really hope they don't. Incentives for individuals is what I'm hoping for.

 

 

Me too, BUT if they gave me or you 15k that s 15k off the tax take, thats not affordable. Businesses can get benefits that help cashflow, thats a greta way, no $ effect on the tax take. Plus they will sell off after 3 years, into the used market. I cannot see any other way, although id like there to be


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