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gzt

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  # 2233784 9-May-2019 15:47
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This was a good discussion on RNZ a few days prior:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018694075/what-happened-to-ev-incentives

..making similar points as all the above.

However - no one mentioned the current "Ute" tax break. Someone needs to figure out how to redirect that so people who would have bought a car if not for that break can decide to go electric instead. It's pretty clear many many people are purchasing Ute just because the tax treatment is given without question. Maybe it's unfixable in that sense and someone should make a 'goods rack' to put in the boot of any car for tax purposes lol. Short story fbt treatment for electric fleet should probably apply to all electric business purpose as well to reach petrol equiv.

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  # 2233785 9-May-2019 15:47
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Removing GST from all NEW EV’s would not have a major effect on the Government tax take if new EV’s are purported to be twice the price of ICE cars, and would equate to circa $15k on a $100k new car.

I am hoping something comes in the budget this month as I am expecting to be able to order a Tesla Model 3 in a few weeks when Tesla open up the order page to Australia and NZ.

 
 
 
 


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  # 2233868 9-May-2019 17:11
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Beltor: Removing GST from all NEW EV’s would not have a major effect on the Government tax take if new EV’s are purported to be twice the price of ICE cars, and would equate to circa $15k on a $100k new car.

I am hoping something comes in the budget this month as I am expecting to be able to order a Tesla Model 3 in a few weeks when Tesla open up the order page to Australia and NZ.

 

Don't hold your breath, If there was something substantial in the budget the greens would have been like kids bursting with a secret, they would not have blabbed, but they would have been a damn sight more positive....

 

"the first rule about budgets is you don't talk about budgets" is a pretty lame response if you have a secret multi million dollar programme going to be announced......

 

BTW, What's your budget for a RHD model 3, I'm guessing the Base will be north of 80K...


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  # 2233900 9-May-2019 18:28
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gzt: This was a good discussion on RNZ a few days prior:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018694075/what-happened-to-ev-incentives

..making similar points as all the above.

However - no one mentioned the current "Ute" tax break. Someone needs to figure out how to redirect that so people who would have bought a car if not for that break can decide to go electric instead. It's pretty clear many many people are purchasing Ute just because the tax treatment is given without question. Maybe it's unfixable in that sense and someone should make a 'goods rack' to put in the boot of any car for tax purposes lol. Short story fbt treatment for electric fleet should probably apply to all electric business purpose as well to reach petrol equiv.

 

There is no 'tax break' on utes; there's no specific IRD policy which says utes are exempt. In fact under the new FBT rules, you can elect for any vehicle to sit outside the FBT regime for any close company in NZ; from memory this is a maximum of two vehicles per company but it's been a while I last brushed up on FBT. 


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  # 2233912 9-May-2019 18:42
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wellygary:

Beltor: Removing GST from all NEW EV’s would not have a major effect on the Government tax take if new EV’s are purported to be twice the price of ICE cars, and would equate to circa $15k on a $100k new car.

I am hoping something comes in the budget this month as I am expecting to be able to order a Tesla Model 3 in a few weeks when Tesla open up the order page to Australia and NZ.

 

Don't hold your breath, If there was something substantial in the budget the greens would have been like kids bursting with a secret, they would not have blabbed, but they would have been a damn sight more positive....

 

"the first rule about budgets is you don't talk about budgets" is a pretty lame response if you have a secret multi million dollar programme going to be announced......

 

BTW, What's your budget for a RHD model 3, I'm guessing the Base will be north of 80K...

 

 

They have announced a factory tow hitch option in EU for the 3 now, so its back to being a mild possibility depending on finance options when they get announced here. Will keep my deposit I put down for one ages ago with them for now.




Richard rich.ms

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  # 2233931 9-May-2019 18:53
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GV27:

 

gzt: This was a good discussion on RNZ a few days prior:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018694075/what-happened-to-ev-incentives

..making similar points as all the above.

However - no one mentioned the current "Ute" tax break. Someone needs to figure out how to redirect that so people who would have bought a car if not for that break can decide to go electric instead. It's pretty clear many many people are purchasing Ute just because the tax treatment is given without question. Maybe it's unfixable in that sense and someone should make a 'goods rack' to put in the boot of any car for tax purposes lol. Short story fbt treatment for electric fleet should probably apply to all electric business purpose as well to reach petrol equiv.

 

There is no 'tax break' on utes; there's no specific IRD policy which says utes are exempt. In fact under the new FBT rules, you can elect for any vehicle to sit outside the FBT regime for any close company in NZ; from memory this is a maximum of two vehicles per company but it's been a while I last brushed up on FBT. 

 

 

Can you provide a link to the new FBT rules?  The IRD is still listing the FBT exemption for vehicles as:

 

"The exclusive design of the vehicle must be to carry goods, or goods and passengers equally. If the vehicle is designed mainly to carry passengers, it won’t meet this requirement."

 

Which still excludes cars as a vehicles that may be classified as FBT exempt.


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  # 2233949 9-May-2019 19:06
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I am definitely not an expert on the FBT rules. But my accountant explained it such that you also need to be working in a trade / profession, where you need to own a goods vehicle to do your job.

He said that I would definitely meet that definition since I'm a plumber. And builders would definitely meet the definition as well. But people who work in office jobs would unlikely to be complying, as the only physical goods they would need to transport would be a few documents.





 
 
 
 


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  # 2233951 9-May-2019 19:07
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wellygary:

Beltor: Removing GST from all NEW EV’s would not have a major effect on the Government tax take if new EV’s are purported to be twice the price of ICE cars, and would equate to circa $15k on a $100k new car.

I am hoping something comes in the budget this month as I am expecting to be able to order a Tesla Model 3 in a few weeks when Tesla open up the order page to Australia and NZ.


Don't hold your breath, If there was something substantial in the budget the greens would have been like kids bursting with a secret, they would not have blabbed, but they would have been a damn sight more positive....


"the first rule about budgets is you don't talk about budgets" is a pretty lame response if you have a secret multi million dollar programme going to be announced......


BTW, What's your budget for a RHD model 3, I'm guessing the Base will be north of 80K...



I’m still hoping there will be something in this budget, and James Shaw could hardly contain himself on TV3 this morning!

My budget is about 80-90k but a lot will depend on what they wish to trade my existing car! I have a reservation that I have been sitting on forever, but the decision to buy may depend on incentives. If there is no incentive I may as well buy a new ICE car!

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  # 2233953 9-May-2019 19:08
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Might have to wait for the Electric Ford F150, or its Rivian derivative to carry 'goods'.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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  # 2233960 9-May-2019 19:26
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Dingbatt: Might have to wait for the Electric Ford F150, or its Rivian derivative to carry 'goods'.


Vans are definitely suitable to carry goods.

Problem is that the only EV vans available at the moment. (that I am aware of) Are the Nissan E NV. (small because it is based on the Leaf). And LDV also sell a large goods van.

But there is nothing that is the same size as the Toyota Hiace available yet. Which is a problem for tradies who need reasonable interior space, and who need to carry stuff on the roof. And bigger batteries are definitely needed. As carrying stuff on the roof affects range.





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  # 2233978 9-May-2019 20:12
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Beltor: Removing GST from all NEW EV’s would not have a major effect on the Government tax take if new EV’s are purported to be twice the price of ICE cars, and would equate to circa $15k on a $100k new car.

I am hoping something comes in the budget this month as I am expecting to be able to order a Tesla Model 3 in a few weeks when Tesla open up the order page to Australia and NZ.

 

I dont mean to target you, especially as my use case is IDEAL for an EV, but you appear to be looking at your benefit vs NZ benefit

 

Twice the price??

 

Removing GST from new cars will affect NZ tax take. (I.e. NZ income). If you can afford a 65k car you will incur GST should you but another "thing" So taxpayers will lose

 

 


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  # 2234112 9-May-2019 21:00
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ockel:

 

GV27:

 

gzt: This was a good discussion on RNZ a few days prior:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018694075/what-happened-to-ev-incentives

..making similar points as all the above.

However - no one mentioned the current "Ute" tax break. Someone needs to figure out how to redirect that so people who would have bought a car if not for that break can decide to go electric instead. It's pretty clear many many people are purchasing Ute just because the tax treatment is given without question. Maybe it's unfixable in that sense and someone should make a 'goods rack' to put in the boot of any car for tax purposes lol. Short story fbt treatment for electric fleet should probably apply to all electric business purpose as well to reach petrol equiv.

 

There is no 'tax break' on utes; there's no specific IRD policy which says utes are exempt. In fact under the new FBT rules, you can elect for any vehicle to sit outside the FBT regime for any close company in NZ; from memory this is a maximum of two vehicles per company but it's been a while I last brushed up on FBT. 

 

 

Can you provide a link to the new FBT rules?  The IRD is still listing the FBT exemption for vehicles as:

 

"The exclusive design of the vehicle must be to carry goods, or goods and passengers equally. If the vehicle is designed mainly to carry passengers, it won’t meet this requirement."

 

Which still excludes cars as a vehicles that may be classified as FBT exempt.

 

 

That's one of four conditions that have to be met. It's not just 'all utes are exempt'. 

 

This has been updated recently; the good stuff about the other options for FBT and exemptions are on p10. 

 

https://www.classic.ird.govt.nz/resources/f/a/fab9c941-c8b0-47c7-b7ee-40f4c25035b5/IR409+Mar19.pdf


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  # 2234126 9-May-2019 21:17
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tdgeek:

 

Beltor: Removing GST from all NEW EV’s would not have a major effect on the Government tax take if new EV’s are purported to be twice the price of ICE cars, and would equate to circa $15k on a $100k new car.

I am hoping something comes in the budget this month as I am expecting to be able to order a Tesla Model 3 in a few weeks when Tesla open up the order page to Australia and NZ.

 

I dont mean to target you, especially as my use case is IDEAL for an EV, but you appear to be looking at your benefit vs NZ benefit

 

Twice the price??

 

Removing GST from new cars will affect NZ tax take. (I.e. NZ income). If you can afford a 65k car you will incur GST should you but another "thing" So taxpayers will lose

 

 

 

 

To be fair, his scenario isn't unique. A lot of people would like to buy a decent EV (like a Model 3) that would be a direct replacement for an ICE vehicle but can't really justify paying the R&D premium that an EV includes currently.  You can't compare a 65k ICE vehicle with a 65k EV (like a Leaf).


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  # 2234128 9-May-2019 21:20
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Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

Beltor: Removing GST from all NEW EV’s would not have a major effect on the Government tax take if new EV’s are purported to be twice the price of ICE cars, and would equate to circa $15k on a $100k new car.

I am hoping something comes in the budget this month as I am expecting to be able to order a Tesla Model 3 in a few weeks when Tesla open up the order page to Australia and NZ.

 

I dont mean to target you, especially as my use case is IDEAL for an EV, but you appear to be looking at your benefit vs NZ benefit

 

Twice the price??

 

Removing GST from new cars will affect NZ tax take. (I.e. NZ income). If you can afford a 65k car you will incur GST should you but another "thing" So taxpayers will lose

 

 

 

 

To be fair, his scenario isn't unique. A lot of people would like to buy a decent EV (like a Model 3) that would be a direct replacement for an ICE vehicle but can't really justify paying the R&D premium that an EV includes currently.  You can't compare a 65k ICE vehicle with a 65k EV (like a Leaf).

 

 

I agree. Can NZ afford to pay 15k as often posted here X 3M light class vehicles? Great idea but it fails financially. We are NZ, not Brunei


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  # 2234134 9-May-2019 21:36
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tdgeek:

Obraik:


tdgeek:


Beltor: Removing GST from all NEW EV’s would not have a major effect on the Government tax take if new EV’s are purported to be twice the price of ICE cars, and would equate to circa $15k on a $100k new car.

I am hoping something comes in the budget this month as I am expecting to be able to order a Tesla Model 3 in a few weeks when Tesla open up the order page to Australia and NZ.


I dont mean to target you, especially as my use case is IDEAL for an EV, but you appear to be looking at your benefit vs NZ benefit


Twice the price??


Removing GST from new cars will affect NZ tax take. (I.e. NZ income). If you can afford a 65k car you will incur GST should you but another "thing" So taxpayers will lose


 



To be fair, his scenario isn't unique. A lot of people would like to buy a decent EV (like a Model 3) that would be a direct replacement for an ICE vehicle but can't really justify paying the R&D premium that an EV includes currently.  You can't compare a 65k ICE vehicle with a 65k EV (like a Leaf).



I agree. Can NZ afford to pay 15k as often posted here X 3M light class vehicles? Great idea but it fails financially. We are NZ, not Brunei


We could add an emissions tax to the purchase of new ICE vehicles (not second hand) to counter what is lost from selling EVs.

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