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1238 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2248959 31-May-2019 10:15
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Obraik:

 

frednz:

 

Well, the 2019 Budget delivered on 30 May 2019 doesn't seem to provide any new NZ Government incentives for buyers of electric vehicles, even though in October 2018, James Shaw is reported as saying that such incentives were coming soon!

 

So, this much needed Government boost to EV uptake, which has been so successful in several overseas countries, looks like it ISN'T coming soon!

 

I can't understand why the Green Party made such strong indications that decent EVs incentives were coming soon and now seem to have back-tracked completely on this happening. This certainly hasn't been helpful for people who have been considering buying EVs.

 

 

 

 

Does the Zero Carbon bill allow for funds to be allocated outside of the budget?  It also depends on how they'd do the incentives?  If they're going with the original "feebate" they talked about last year, would that need to be in the budget since they wouldn't be outright funding it?  

 

I actually wrote an email to Julie Anne Genter expressing my concern for an EV subsidy and got a reply from her last week saying that they're "investigating a range of levers to encourage the uptake of electric vehicles. Our focus is on implementing measures that will assist in transitioning to a zero-emission fleet. I hope to say more on how the Government can best support this objective in the coming months."

 

 

Thanks, you ask some pertinent questions and it's good that you actually got a reply from Julie Anne Genter.

 

But, the use of the term "in the coming months" probably means that buyers should now give up on waiting for any new EV incentives and just buy an EV now, even though the prices of NZ-New EVs are ridiculously high!

 

Don't you think it would have been helpful if the 2019 Budget had given some information about all this, so that buyers and car dealers were better informed about the Government's intentions with regard to EV incentives?




1238 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2248960 31-May-2019 10:21
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tdgeek:

 

To be fair, giving cash to brand new EV owners, has to be a lower priority than many other challenges at the moment

 

 

This is often stated, but ignores the wider implications of encouraging large numbers of people to buy EVs rather than petrol vehicles. EV incentives do work, you only have to look at what's happening in Norway, for example, where half of all new cars sold to Norwegians are either fully electric or hybrid, making the country of 5.3 million the biggest per-capita market for EVs.


 
 
 
 


504 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2248962 31-May-2019 10:27
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frednz:

 

Obraik:

 

frednz:

 

Well, the 2019 Budget delivered on 30 May 2019 doesn't seem to provide any new NZ Government incentives for buyers of electric vehicles, even though in October 2018, James Shaw is reported as saying that such incentives were coming soon!

 

So, this much needed Government boost to EV uptake, which has been so successful in several overseas countries, looks like it ISN'T coming soon!

 

I can't understand why the Green Party made such strong indications that decent EVs incentives were coming soon and now seem to have back-tracked completely on this happening. This certainly hasn't been helpful for people who have been considering buying EVs.

 

 

 

 

Does the Zero Carbon bill allow for funds to be allocated outside of the budget?  It also depends on how they'd do the incentives?  If they're going with the original "feebate" they talked about last year, would that need to be in the budget since they wouldn't be outright funding it?  

 

I actually wrote an email to Julie Anne Genter expressing my concern for an EV subsidy and got a reply from her last week saying that they're "investigating a range of levers to encourage the uptake of electric vehicles. Our focus is on implementing measures that will assist in transitioning to a zero-emission fleet. I hope to say more on how the Government can best support this objective in the coming months."

 

 

Thanks, you ask some pertinent questions and it's good that you actually got a reply from Julie Anne Genter.

 

But, the use of the term "in the coming months" probably means that buyers should now give up on waiting for any new EV incentives and just buy an EV now, even though the prices of NZ-New EVs are ridiculously high!

 

Don't you think it would have been helpful if the 2019 Budget had given some information about all this, so that buyers and car dealers were better informed about the Government's intentions with regard to EV incentives?

 

 

I don't think it should be in the budget if that's not the right place for it to be.  If they are doing an incentive and they're doing it in a way that doesn't require the budget then it makes no sense to include it there.  However, I do think if they are doing something they need some of that "Let's do this" energy and tell us through its own announcement.  As you said, a lot of us are holding off on purchasing an EV at the moment until we know what their plan actually is.


18505 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2248976 31-May-2019 10:38
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frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

To be fair, giving cash to brand new EV owners, has to be a lower priority than many other challenges at the moment

 

 

This is often stated, but ignores the wider implications of encouraging large numbers of people to buy EVs rather than petrol vehicles. EV incentives do work, you only have to look at what's happening in Norway, for example, where half of all new cars sold to Norwegians are either fully electric or hybrid, making the country of 5.3 million the biggest per-capita market for EVs.

 

 

Paid for by the massive sales of oil, Norway is not NZ. We cant afford health and education and roading. So its hard to justify $10k+ x 3 million cars




1238 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2249000 31-May-2019 11:04
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tdgeek:

 

frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

To be fair, giving cash to brand new EV owners, has to be a lower priority than many other challenges at the moment

 

 

This is often stated, but ignores the wider implications of encouraging large numbers of people to buy EVs rather than petrol vehicles. EV incentives do work, you only have to look at what's happening in Norway, for example, where half of all new cars sold to Norwegians are either fully electric or hybrid, making the country of 5.3 million the biggest per-capita market for EVs.

 

 

Paid for by the massive sales of oil, Norway is not NZ. We cant afford health and education and roading. So its hard to justify $10k+ x 3 million cars

 

 

The purpose of my post this morning was just to report that there is no specific mention in Budget 2019 about any EV incentives. I don't think there's a need to rehash again all the arguments for and against them that have already been stated many times in this thread, except to say that, the Government doesn't seem at this point to be taking the whole issue of climate change very seriously at all.


18505 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 2249024 31-May-2019 11:15
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frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

To be fair, giving cash to brand new EV owners, has to be a lower priority than many other challenges at the moment

 

 

This is often stated, but ignores the wider implications of encouraging large numbers of people to buy EVs rather than petrol vehicles. EV incentives do work, you only have to look at what's happening in Norway, for example, where half of all new cars sold to Norwegians are either fully electric or hybrid, making the country of 5.3 million the biggest per-capita market for EVs.

 

 

Paid for by the massive sales of oil, Norway is not NZ. We cant afford health and education and roading. So its hard to justify $10k+ x 3 million cars

 

 

The purpose of my post this morning was just to report that there is no specific mention in Budget 2019 about any EV incentives. I don't think there's a need to rehash again all the arguments for and against them that have already been stated many times in this thread, except to say that, the Government doesn't seem at this point to be taking the whole issue of climate change very seriously at all.

 

 

And when you say the Govt isnt interested at all, that is exactly why I posted. I want an EV, a subsidy would be great, but I see health and education and transport infrastructure as more important than cash for me

 

We see the challenges that we have. Nurses, doctors, teachers, rail, transport, etc. For a Government, whoever that was, its political suicide. Imagine if in a budget health and education and so on and so on were left untouched while they gave out $10,000 to all of us comfortable people who want an EV. It cannot be a 2019 Budget issue, as there are many other more important items that are also not in the 2019 Budget as we arent made of money

 

Personally I doubt NZ will ever offer subsidies for residential EV.




1238 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2249034 31-May-2019 11:27
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tdgeek:

 

And when you say the Govt isnt interested at all, that is exactly why I posted. I want an EV, a subsidy would be great, but I see health and education and transport infrastructure as more important than cash for me

 

We see the challenges that we have. Nurses, doctors, teachers, rail, transport, etc. For a Government, whoever that was, its political suicide. Imagine if in a budget health and education and so on and so on were left untouched while they gave out $10,000 to all of us comfortable people who want an EV. It cannot be a 2019 Budget issue, as there are many other more important items that are also not in the 2019 Budget as we arent made of money

 

Personally I doubt NZ will ever offer subsidies for residential EV.

 

 

What you are saying makes perfect sense if climate change wasn't part of the picture. So, you either believe climate change is a huge and pressing issue or you don't. One day, climate change measures will probably be top of the agenda and new railways etc will not seem significant at all if all our coastal areas are being flooded by rising sea levels.


 
 
 
 


18505 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 2249038 31-May-2019 11:34
3 people support this post
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frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

And when you say the Govt isnt interested at all, that is exactly why I posted. I want an EV, a subsidy would be great, but I see health and education and transport infrastructure as more important than cash for me

 

We see the challenges that we have. Nurses, doctors, teachers, rail, transport, etc. For a Government, whoever that was, its political suicide. Imagine if in a budget health and education and so on and so on were left untouched while they gave out $10,000 to all of us comfortable people who want an EV. It cannot be a 2019 Budget issue, as there are many other more important items that are also not in the 2019 Budget as we arent made of money

 

Personally I doubt NZ will ever offer subsidies for residential EV.

 

 

What you are saying makes perfect sense if climate change wasn't part of the picture. So, you either believe climate change is a huge and pressing issue or you don't. One day, climate change measures will probably be top of the agenda and new railways etc will not seem significant at all if all our coastal areas are being flooded by rising sea levels.

 

 

That is very unfair. I am WELL aware of CC. Hydro to remove FF is better. using rail and not trucks is better. Electric rail is better. Incentivising businesses to take us mass EV's is better, and does not cause 10k per car to be spent for whats is just low mileage commutng. The latter is a good idea but its very very low benefit for the cost. Incentivising public transport, cycles etc is better. There are a lot of things we can do and are doing, but giving me 10k isnt one of them, or at least the best value. NZ cannot afford $10,000 x 3,000,000 cars


4194 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2249043 31-May-2019 11:48
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Speaking of reducing Emissions, I just saw that Infratil and the NZ super fund have confirmed funding for a 380MW Solar plant.......

 

 

 

(The only wrinkle is that its in Texas not Northland  :(.....

 

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335368


504 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2249045 31-May-2019 11:49
One person supports this post
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tdgeek:

 

frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

To be fair, giving cash to brand new EV owners, has to be a lower priority than many other challenges at the moment

 

 

This is often stated, but ignores the wider implications of encouraging large numbers of people to buy EVs rather than petrol vehicles. EV incentives do work, you only have to look at what's happening in Norway, for example, where half of all new cars sold to Norwegians are either fully electric or hybrid, making the country of 5.3 million the biggest per-capita market for EVs.

 

 

Paid for by the massive sales of oil, Norway is not NZ. We cant afford health and education and roading. So its hard to justify $10k+ x 3 million cars

 

 

The purpose of my post this morning was just to report that there is no specific mention in Budget 2019 about any EV incentives. I don't think there's a need to rehash again all the arguments for and against them that have already been stated many times in this thread, except to say that, the Government doesn't seem at this point to be taking the whole issue of climate change very seriously at all.

 

 

And when you say the Govt isnt interested at all, that is exactly why I posted. I want an EV, a subsidy would be great, but I see health and education and transport infrastructure as more important than cash for me

 

We see the challenges that we have. Nurses, doctors, teachers, rail, transport, etc. For a Government, whoever that was, its political suicide. Imagine if in a budget health and education and so on and so on were left untouched while they gave out $10,000 to all of us comfortable people who want an EV. It cannot be a 2019 Budget issue, as there are many other more important items that are also not in the 2019 Budget as we arent made of money

 

Personally I doubt NZ will ever offer subsidies for residential EV.

 

 

As we've discussed before, your assumption depends on them just giving away money from some pool. If they go with the feebate option they were talking about last year then that assumption doesn't apply.


18505 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 2249052 31-May-2019 11:57
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Obraik:

 

 

 

As we've discussed before, your assumption depends on them just giving away money from some pool. If they go with the feebate option they were talking about last year then that assumption doesn't apply.

 

 

The giving away is the most common post here. The issue with feebate is that you penalise buyers whose use case cannot support an EV, that is an unfair subsidy

 

Transport Greenhouse gases are significant. Those generated from residential cars that can manage an EV use case is very small. Bus9inesses are a far better way to reduce GG transport emmissions and you can incentivise that by instant cashflow benefits that are not cash out for the Government


504 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2249053 31-May-2019 11:59
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

As we've discussed before, your assumption depends on them just giving away money from some pool. If they go with the feebate option they were talking about last year then that assumption doesn't apply.

 

 

The giving away is the most common post here. The issue with feebate is that you penalise buyers whose use case cannot support an EV, that is an unfair subsidy

 

Transport Greenhouse gases are significant. Those generated from residential cars that can manage an EV use case is very small. Bus9inesses are a far better way to reduce GG transport emmissions and you can incentivise that by instant cashflow benefits that are not cash out for the Government

 

 

We've talked about how a feebate could work without doing that.  Putting the feebate against new or new to NZ cars and excluding second hand cars doesn't punish those that aren't in a position to buy an EV.


884 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  # 2249056 31-May-2019 12:06
One person supports this post
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

As we've discussed before, your assumption depends on them just giving away money from some pool. If they go with the feebate option they were talking about last year then that assumption doesn't apply.

 

 

The giving away is the most common post here. The issue with feebate is that you penalise buyers whose use case cannot support an EV, that is an unfair subsidy

 

Transport Greenhouse gases are significant. Those generated from residential cars that can manage an EV use case is very small. Bus9inesses are a far better way to reduce GG transport emmissions and you can incentivise that by instant cashflow benefits that are not cash out for the Government

 

 

There are already funding channels available (EECA) that are putting EVs (and other things) in place now. The future of Light / Heavy commercial vehicles switching to alternative power is likely preferred. Waste Management trucks that are switching and are working a lot longer than the average personal vehicle. Further to this, without subsidy, there are a number of people on GZ who've paid off their investment in their EV (Leaf Owners?) and now reaping the benefit of the switch. If we were going to subsidise, we missed the opportunity, the second hand market is already underway as a solution. New EVs (Kona / Ioniqs) are already wait listed so demand is above supply now.


18505 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 2249060 31-May-2019 12:10
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Obraik:

 

 

 

We've talked about how a feebate could work without doing that.  Putting the feebate against new or new to NZ cars and excluding second hand cars doesn't punish those that aren't in a position to buy an EV.

 

 

So every new or new to NZ car is 100% suitable for an EV? No. Range, size, towing, weight carrying means they are not. And why only support new EV's that will be owned for many years when business EV's will save more GG as they do far more mileage, and they will be recycled to the second hand market on just 3 years.

 

Im looking at saving emissions, but the theme seems to be getting residential consumers into a cheaper car


504 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2249063 31-May-2019 12:14
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

We've talked about how a feebate could work without doing that.  Putting the feebate against new or new to NZ cars and excluding second hand cars doesn't punish those that aren't in a position to buy an EV.

 

 

So every new or new to NZ car is 100% suitable for an EV? No. Range, size, towing, weight carrying means they are not. And why only support new EV's that will be owned for many years when business EV's will save more GG as they do far more mileage, and they will be recycled to the second hand market on just 3 years.

 

Im looking at saving emissions, but the theme seems to be getting residential consumers into a cheaper car

 

 

More, every new or new to NZ car could be paying for the impact they cause.  If you don't want to buy an EV or there's not an EV suitable, buy a second hand model and reduce emissions.


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