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502 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2259510 17-Jun-2019 15:17
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Even Kenya is now adding incentives/subsidies to the purchase cost of EVs while punishing those with fuel hungry vehicles

 

https://allafrica.com/stories/201906140521.html


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  # 2259516 17-Jun-2019 15:30
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Obraik:

 

Even Kenya is now adding incentives/subsidies to the purchase cost of EVs while punishing those with fuel hungry vehicles

 

https://allafrica.com/stories/201906140521.html

 

 

Incentive and subsidy?  They are taxing cars including EV, although EV gets a discount. It now makes EV more expensive, so a good incentive? I didnt notice the subsidy


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 2259518 17-Jun-2019 15:33
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tdgeek:

 

Incentive and subsidy?  They are taxing cars including EV, although EV gets a discount. It now makes EV more expensive, so a good incentive? I didnt notice the subsidy

 

 

They're increasing the tax on ICE vehicles while reducing the tax on EVs.


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  # 2259521 17-Jun-2019 15:47
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They are adding a new tax to all vehicles. ICE will get the new tax at 30 - 35%. EV will get at 20 - 25%. Firstly, all cars will increase in price, EV less so. Or is it less so?

 

Here an ICE Kona is 40k an EV Kona is 80k. ICE in Kenya goes up $12000 (30%) EV in Kenya goes up $16000 (20%) It does get closer % to an ICE, but it now goes up $4000 more then the ICE

 

The incentive seems to be buy an ICE at 1499cc or less. If there is an EV at an equivalent, then I guess also no change.

 

 

 

 

 

The National Treasury has also proposed a 30 to 35 percent excise duty rate on high-end vehicles with the rate for 1500cc engine cars set to vary between 20 and 25 percent. The excise duty on vehicles powered by electricity will be reduced by 10 percent in a bid to encourage the use of environmentally friendly automobiles.


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Uber Geek


  # 2259609 17-Jun-2019 16:03
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Obraik:

 

Even Kenya is now adding incentives/subsidies to the purchase cost of EVs while punishing those with fuel hungry vehicles

 

https://allafrica.com/stories/201906140521.html

 

 

According to this Kenyan car import blog the number of EVs is well under 100 (Its was less than 12 in October 2018) and based on power/fuel prices payback is around  8 years,

 

https://autoprotokenya.com/new-blog/2018/10/20/electric-cars-in-kenya-cost-to-drive-15000-km

 

 

 

Also they are still trying to push on with building a 1000MW coal plant, (despite significant objections and court action)

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kenya-electricity/power-from-kenyas-planned-lamu-plant-could-cost-10-times-more-than-estimated-study-idUSKCN1TC1MP


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Ultimate Geek


  # 2259614 17-Jun-2019 16:09
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To be fair, the article doesn't actually say what the 10% is less of...whether it's 10% less of the top rate or the lowest rate or if it's 10% off the current duty rates.  Either way, it's reducing the cost of an EV closer to the equivalent ICE vehicle which is more than what's happening here in NZ.

 

As for the coal power, it's still cleaner to have an EV run on electricity generated by coal than it is to run an ICE vehicle powered by petrol/diesel.  Obviously not ideal, though.


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  # 2259619 17-Jun-2019 16:20
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Obraik:

 

To be fair, the article doesn't actually say what the 10% is less of...whether it's 10% less of the top rate or the lowest rate or if it's 10% off the current duty rates.  Either way, it's reducing the cost of an EV closer to the equivalent ICE vehicle which is more than what's happening here in NZ.

 

As for the coal power, it's still cleaner to have an EV run on electricity generated by coal than it is to run an ICE vehicle powered by petrol/diesel.  Obviously not ideal, though.

 

 

It quoted figures that make it clear that EV get punished less than ICE, but 10% less than ICE. Its punishing EV take-up. But I wouldnt really class Kenya as the centre of all things fair. 

 

Here it's different. You want to be paid cash so that an EV is cheaper. Kenya wants to add many taxes, including EV, which makes it moie expensive. Do you feel we should add say a 20% tax on new ICE and add 10% on new EV? We could do that, I guess. Its the incentive you want, plus we get all that cash into Govt coffers for health, education and transport infrastructure.  I'm liking it :-) 


 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek


  # 2259624 17-Jun-2019 16:30
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And the pace of progress is glacial.  We're getting close to a "discussion paper" which suggests any incentives could be miles away.

 

"The minister noted work she is doing to progress a potential discussion paper on low-emissions vehicle initiatives, they add."

 

 

 

https://evtalk.co.nz/nzs-ev-progress-discussed/

 

 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 2259625 17-Jun-2019 16:33
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tdgeek:

 

It quoted figures that make it clear that EV get punished less than ICE, but 10% less than ICE. Its punishing EV take-up. But I wouldnt really class Kenya as the centre of all things fair. 

 

Here it's different. You want to be paid cash so that an EV is cheaper. Kenya wants to add many taxes, including EV, which makes it moie expensive. Do you feel we should add say a 20% tax on new ICE and add 10% on new EV? We could do that, I guess. Its the incentive you want, plus we get all that cash into Govt coffers for health, education and transport infrastructure.  I'm liking it :-) 

 

 

Here, I want the price of an EV reduced either by reducing/removing the GST on EVs (as Kenya is doing, with a much smaller economy than NZ) or by adding an emissions tax to new or new to NZ ICE vehicles that is then used to reduce the cost of an EV by X amount or %. 


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  # 2259631 17-Jun-2019 16:47
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ockel:

 

And the pace of progress is glacial.  We're getting close to a "discussion paper" which suggests any incentives could be miles away.

 

"The minister noted work she is doing to progress a potential discussion paper on low-emissions vehicle initiatives, they add."

 

 

 

https://evtalk.co.nz/nzs-ev-progress-discussed/

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is glacial. Id be wary of the word incentives as that implies cash. I cannot see any cash incentives, as there is no way to pay for them


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Uber Geek


  # 2259632 17-Jun-2019 16:49
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ockel:

 

And the pace of progress is glacial.  We're getting close to a "discussion paper" which suggests any incentives could be miles away.

 

"The minister noted work she is doing to progress a potential discussion paper on low-emissions vehicle initiatives, they add."

 

https://evtalk.co.nz/nzs-ev-progress-discussed/

 

 

Jeeze Louise,

 

a "potential discussion paper"

 

 

 

....well that basically means nothing will be implemented before the next election, at the earliest....

 

 


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  # 2259633 17-Jun-2019 16:53
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Obraik:

 

Here, I want the price of an EV reduced either by reducing/removing the GST on EVs (as Kenya is doing, with a much smaller economy than NZ) or by adding an emissions tax to new or new to NZ ICE vehicles that is then used to reduce the cost of an EV by X amount or %. 

 

 

If we remove GST, what spending do we reduce to offset that? Education, health, transport infratstructure, and so on. Kenya isn't doing that. Its adding a NEW tax then making EV pay for that (punish is the term you used) EV after being punished, gets a discount. 

 

The concept of taxing ICE for EV is fine. IF an ICE buyer can get an EV instead. In that case, the ICE buyer could and should buy EV but he doesn't. There will be many that cannot buy an EV, you cannot punish them. Not till there is a choice that people can make. There are many reasons why that choice doesnt exist.


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  # 2259635 17-Jun-2019 16:57
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wellygary:

 

ockel:

 

And the pace of progress is glacial.  We're getting close to a "discussion paper" which suggests any incentives could be miles away.

 

"The minister noted work she is doing to progress a potential discussion paper on low-emissions vehicle initiatives, they add."

 

https://evtalk.co.nz/nzs-ev-progress-discussed/

 

 

Jeeze Louise,

 

a "potential discussion paper"

 

 

 

....well that basically means nothing will be implemented before the next election, at the earliest....

 

 

 

 

I feel its cause many onlookers have assumed its a fat cash incentive, and everyone knows there is no money for that. Greens talked about incentives, so that assumption is now locked in.When they come out with incentives that are not fat cash bonuses, people wont be happy. So, more work to do and lets hope EV sales grow so they can introduce incentives that are not cash bonus based, "as its clear by vibrant sales that that's not needed"  


502 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2259637 17-Jun-2019 17:02
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tdgeek:

 

If we remove GST, what spending do we reduce to offset that? Education, health, transport infratstructure, and so on. Kenya isn't doing that. Its adding a NEW tax then making EV pay for that (punish is the term you used) EV after being punished, gets a discount. 

 

The concept of taxing ICE for EV is fine. IF an ICE buyer can get an EV instead. In that case, the ICE buyer could and should buy EV but he doesn't. There will be many that cannot buy an EV, you cannot punish them. Not till there is a choice that people can make. There are many reasons why that choice doesnt exist.

 

 

It has to be all or nothing.  If you make a rule where "if you buy a Ute you don't have to pay the emissions tax because there isn't an EV incentive" then you've created a loop hole and everyone will buy a ute (even more than they are already) to avoid the tax.  Remember, this is about reducing climate change and making an ICE an unappealing option.


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  # 2259641 17-Jun-2019 17:13
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Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

If we remove GST, what spending do we reduce to offset that? Education, health, transport infratstructure, and so on. Kenya isn't doing that. Its adding a NEW tax then making EV pay for that (punish is the term you used) EV after being punished, gets a discount. 

 

The concept of taxing ICE for EV is fine. IF an ICE buyer can get an EV instead. In that case, the ICE buyer could and should buy EV but he doesn't. There will be many that cannot buy an EV, you cannot punish them. Not till there is a choice that people can make. There are many reasons why that choice doesnt exist.

 

 

It has to be all or nothing.  If you make a rule where "if you buy a Ute you don't have to pay the emissions tax because there isn't an EV incentive" then you've created a loop hole and everyone will buy a ute (even more than they are already) to avoid the tax.  Remember, this is about reducing climate change and making an ICE an unappealing option.

 

 

There is no EV equivalent for my use case. I can afford an economical new car say a Kona at $40k, I can't afford an $80k Kona. These two scenarios are not because an EV is unappealing. When EV supply is plenty, and prices have eased, and there are many models, then you could look at targeting ICE that has an EV equivalent. Anything other and you are penalising people who have no choice. That will go down well with voters, who will vote that out. It would be fairer to have a Climate Change tax. After all why penalise ICE when we all use goods that created greenhouse gases. Again, voters will love that. 

 

 

 

 


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