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605 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 2185368 22-Feb-2019 13:02
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Actually I believe that it is a "people on rental scooters" problem.

 

I have not seen any crazy antics on privately owned scooters and I would certainly not do crazy things on ours.





Rob

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  # 2185369 22-Feb-2019 13:10
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elpenguino: That might be a bit heavy handed. After all we don't let a few idiots ruin it for the rest of us when it comes to cars, alcohol, firearms etc.

 

What we need is the cops out there handing out fines so these people pull their head in. 

 

What fines? There's currently no regulation around e-scooters.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2185372 22-Feb-2019 13:17
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tdgeek:

 

I agree but its a people problem not a scooter problem. There are rules for cycles. Road only, helmets. That works. Scooters have basically no rules you do what you want, so people take that to the next level. if councils and Police made a few obvious rules and enforced them, then people will behave

 

 

Doesn't the key responsibility sit with NZTA, with the Police's job to enforce any rules/requirements in relation to scooters? It also ideally shouldn't be left up to councils to come up with their own bylaws in relation to scooters (as that provides inconsistency and also increases the chance of knee-jerk reactions such as banning), which they are being forced to due to the lack of central government leadership on the matter.

 

The current situation is farcical as:

 

* scooters can't use the dedicated cycleways on a road; I assume it's because the relevant legislation/rules uses the term 'cycle' and scooters don't meet that definition!

 

* scooter riders don't need to wear a helmet, again I assume this is because regs/leg states it is cyclists that have to do so

 

* scooters can ride on the footpath because... I dunno, because there's nothing saying they can't?  Though the low-powered vehicle guidelines from LTSA contain sensible guidance, on this:

 

On the footpath the user must:

 

  • operate the device in a careful and considerate manner
  • operate the device at a speed that does not put other footpath users at risk
  • give way to both pedestrians and drivers of mobility devices.

 

Given that's a 'must' then surely that gives Police some teeth to actually do something about the dodgy riding on footpaths?

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2185377 22-Feb-2019 13:29
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Dratsab:

 

elpenguino: That might be a bit heavy handed. After all we don't let a few idiots ruin it for the rest of us when it comes to cars, alcohol, firearms etc.

 

What we need is the cops out there handing out fines so these people pull their head in. 

 

What fines? There's currently no regulation around e-scooters.

 

 

Just another case where the law needs to catch up with reality. We know how to fix it.

 

 


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  # 2185382 22-Feb-2019 13:38
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Dratsab:

 

What fines? There's currently no regulation around e-scooters.

 

 

What is the formal status of the 'low powered vehicles' page on the LTSA site, ie the one I quoted from above?

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/vehicle-types/low-powered-vehicles/

 

Given it uses the imperative "must" one could assume there's something behind it; whether or not that involves the ability to issue fines is another matter (is it simply based on general rules in relation to the use of the footpath)?

 

The declaration' in relation to e-scooters linked to from that page is simply to define certain ones (those under a certain power output) as 'not motor vehicles'; that has a potential impact on grunty scooters like some in the Zero range, but I assume was necessary to ensure they weren't required to meet the conditions and requirements of being considered a 'motor vehicle'.

 

https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2018-au4674


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  # 2185394 22-Feb-2019 14:19
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robfish:

 

Actually I believe that it is a "people on rental scooters" problem.

 

I have not seen any crazy antics on privately owned scooters and I would certainly not do crazy things on ours.

 

 

My experience has been the opposite.

 

The riders on private scooters have been much worse at increasing the risks for me. They're the ones who have nearly knocked me and others down. Their scooters have no warning device unlike the Lime scooters which at least have a bell, although I've only seen one rider use it.

 

Also, most Lime scooter riders know that they are tracked and can be identified by the Police. This is not the case for private scooter owners.


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  # 2185440 22-Feb-2019 14:52
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Hammerer:

 

robfish:

 

Actually I believe that it is a "people on rental scooters" problem.

 

I have not seen any crazy antics on privately owned scooters and I would certainly not do crazy things on ours.

 

 

My experience has been the opposite.

 

The riders on private scooters have been much worse at increasing the risks for me. They're the ones who have nearly knocked me and others down. Their scooters have no warning device unlike the Lime scooters which at least have a bell, although I've only seen one rider use it.

 

Also, most Lime scooter riders know that they are tracked and can be identified by the Police. This is not the case for private scooter owners.

 

 

Actually - all Xiaomi scooters have a bell - they are part of the locking mechanism for the folding handlebars. Many other brands also have bells or buzzers. Most Limes I've ridden have had the bells ripped off or they're non-functioning. 

 

Also - I use my bell, but idiots wearing headphones/earbuds with their hip hop blasting their earholes don't hear anyway and are usually quite startled by another human appearing anywhere near them - irrespective of their  ode of transportation (feet, scooter, rollerskates, hoverboard or jetpack). Something you learn quite quickly when using the pavement on a scooter or skateboard is that pedestrians are self-absorbed. They don't think about anyone else on the street - as you would learn quickly if you were in a wheelchair or on crutches. People dart around, change direction, stop suddenly and gesticulate wildly. 

 

Most private scooter riders are actually pretty considerate - especially as they're riding a particularly expensive piece of kit. I have witnessed many Lime renters doing silly stuff and looking far more out of control than the privately owned lot (which includes me). 

 

I terms of tracking - unnecessary and irrelevant. I've seen no evidence that the fact that Limes are tracked has stopped the foolish from renting them.

 

 





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  # 2185444 22-Feb-2019 15:01
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Hammerer:

 

My experience has been the opposite.

 

The riders on private scooters have been much worse at increasing the risks for me. They're the ones who have nearly knocked me and others down. Their scooters have no warning device unlike the Lime scooters which at least have a bell, although I've only seen one rider use it.

 

Also, most Lime scooter riders know that they are tracked and can be identified by the Police. This is not the case for private scooter owners.

 

 

The Mi 365, which I assume (based on Pricespy data) is the no. 1 selling e-scooter in NZ, comes with a bell. My son suggested yesterday I should replace it with an air horn.

 

Should e-scooters continue to be allowed to use the footpath then, yeah, I think it's fair enough that users are required to have a bell on their scooter.

 

TBH, I live in a city where there are no Lime scooters, and I've seen a grand total of three people (including me) using e-scooters (four, if I include my son on his underpowered kids' e-scooter!). They're such a rarity still that I still get stared at (especially by kids) and occasionally abused for simply being on one! (My favourite, from some 30-something redneck in a ute - 'faggot!')


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  # 2185452 22-Feb-2019 15:27
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Is there something that says electric scooters aren't covered by the laws and bylaws?

 

I thought that the existing legislation already covers electric scooters as vehicles just as it has always covered the push scooter that I've used.

 

Section 2 of the Land Transport Act 1998

 

means a contrivance equipped with wheels, tracks, or revolving runners on which it moves or is moved

 

I've seen police move skateboard (specifically mentioned in the Act) users and scooter (not specifically mentioned in the Act) users off the road because of they represented a danger there.

 

 


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  # 2185460 22-Feb-2019 15:52
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robjg63:

 

elpenguino:

 

That might be a bit heavy handed. After all we don't let a few idiots ruin it for the rest of us when it comes to cars, alcohol, firearms etc.

 

What we need is the cops out there handing out fines so these people pull their head in.

 

 

True - But I dont have daily contact with most of the above idiots.

 

I agree we need cops pinging people for using phones in cars, red light runners, intersection window washers, vagrants hassling people on the streets and some fines for idiot scooter drivers - but I dont see that happening anything soon.

 

The only time I ever see police is while they are driving at high speed with the lights flashing through central Auckland. Really think we need more (some) foot (maybe scooter) or bike based local cops.

 

 

I seen a cop on a bike here in chch a few days ago on St Asaph st which has massive cycle lanes and he was riding on the footpath so shame on him.





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Ultimate Geek


  # 2185464 22-Feb-2019 16:00
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JaseNZ:

 

robjg63:

 

elpenguino:

 

That might be a bit heavy handed. After all we don't let a few idiots ruin it for the rest of us when it comes to cars, alcohol, firearms etc.

 

What we need is the cops out there handing out fines so these people pull their head in.

 

 

True - But I dont have daily contact with most of the above idiots.

 

I agree we need cops pinging people for using phones in cars, red light runners, intersection window washers, vagrants hassling people on the streets and some fines for idiot scooter drivers - but I dont see that happening anything soon.

 

The only time I ever see police is while they are driving at high speed with the lights flashing through central Auckland. Really think we need more (some) foot (maybe scooter) or bike based local cops.

 

 

I seen a cop on a bike here in chch a few days ago on St Asaph st which has massive cycle lanes and he was riding on the footpath so shame on him.

 

 

They're allowed to do that if they're on a job and shout nerr-nerr-nerr-nerr.


605 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 2185465 22-Feb-2019 16:03
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I got called "faggot" too. Maybe it means someone with a brain, a job and a respect for others and our planet.
Oh, and yes, Zero scooters have bells too but they are ineffective to those who can't hear.




Rob

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  # 2185500 22-Feb-2019 16:46
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jonathan18: They're such a rarity still that I still get stared at (especially by kids) and occasionally abused for simply being on one! (My favourite, from some 30-something redneck in a ute - 'faggot!')



You're not helping to change any Palmerston North stereotypes with this story!

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  # 2185504 22-Feb-2019 16:58
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Looks like they have been ordered off the streets in Auckland temporarily after safety concerns.


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  # 2185512 22-Feb-2019 17:08
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yes they have but I bet they wont be off very long?? firmware updates have apparently reduced the Incidents. I wonder what the threshold has been





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