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80 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 242671 8-Nov-2018 16:49
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Hi,

 

 

 

We're looking for a mid-sized SUV in the $20,000, diesel AWD would be preferable. At least 2000cc.

 

 

 

We're liking the CX-5 but it seems to be pushing the budget for the AWD and they have higher KM on the clock.

 

Plenty of X-Trails petrols around 2014-2015 though, not too sure about the CTV thb. Does anyone on here have experience with them?

 

 

 

Any other options we should consider?

 

 

 

Chur!


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3100 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2122368 8-Nov-2018 18:34
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We have an X Trail and love it. Great value for money. Yes the CVT Takes a bit of getting use to but they are rapidly becoming the transmission of choice due to their efficiency including fuel savings. The stigma of the old CVT’s still lingers. My research before buying showed that is as long as you maintain them they are no different to any other auto type as far as reliability. Great fuel economy for the vehicle size also.




Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2122421 8-Nov-2018 21:15
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IMO with CVT it really comes down to what you are using it for and personal preference. If you are towing heavy loads regularly it isn't a great choice otherwise they are fine.


 
 
 
 


472 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2122476 8-Nov-2018 23:25
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Tell us a little more about the application for the car:

 

  • Rough distance traveled each year
  • Type of running (i.e. open road, city traffic).
  • Is it mostly 1/2 people, or will it be a family wagon?
  • Any special needs (i.e. towing, off road, 7 seats etc)
  • What aspects are important (i.e. comfort / styling / efficiency / performance / handling etc)

 

 

Good news is there is heaps of choice in the mid-size SUV segment, although as that segment is popular, used cars in that space depreciate less, so you money would go further towards a sedan etc. Good news is that the lesser depreciation is likely to be the case during your ownership too.

Regarding fuel, this segment is dominated by petrol engine options (for example, the current (post 2013) x-trail is petrol only. Generally this is because fuel / RUC costs are similar, but diesel vehicles cost more to build / buy, and have higher maintenance & repair costs, + higher registration costs.

Comparing the petrol and diesel x-trails from the previous generation:

 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/nissan/auction-1708588253.htm?rsqid=c050ea25bd5648078308df21d4520d0f

 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/nissan/auction-1822704144.htm?rsqid=4d0b7c79d5af44af8cf02bb5ca008a01

The EECA estimate for fuel (+ruc for diesel) costs based on 14,000km per year, is $2,380 for the 2.0L petrol and $2,370 for the diesel. Unless your diving type uses a lot more fuel than the manufacturer rating (i.e. towing), your are unlikely to save a lot of running costs by running diesel (generally why people want diesel engines).

One thing to note is that the previous generation x-trail was sold in japan as a diesel, something that is very unusual as that market strongly favors petrol over diesel.

Massive thread on diesel vs petrol here:

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=205593&page_no=1#1674685

Regarding AWD, obviously desirable if you are going to go off road, or on ski-field access roads / mountain passes that often have a "4wd or chains" restriction. But if you can do without, you will save on both the purchase price, and on running costs (2wd variants typically use less fuel).

Regarding engine size, don't be to concerned by the CC capacity. Turbocharging (all modern diesels have this) make this number somewhat less valuable.

Regarding the X-trail, I haven't been in one since 2006, at that stage I was found the front seats uncomfortable (something that is easy for OP to check out). The x-trail is one of the better smaller cross over SUV's off road. The current version has a quite respectable 211mm of ground clearance. (for comparison a honda CRV has 170mm)

Regarding the CVT, I think the previous generation X-trail (the one OP is looking at) gets the Jatco JF011E transmission. Despite Jatco's generally bad reputation, that particulate models has been widely used, and is pritty well regarded. (same one that's in the very common previous generation outlander). Other Jatco CVT's like for example that CVT8HT in the current pathfinder are known to have hie failure rates, giving all CVT's a undue bad name. As with all auto's, it is important CVT's are serviced and with the correct liquids.


Regarding other options to look at:

 

 

 

 

 

Avoid the Holden captiva.

As a side note, I went through a similar exercise (and budget) earlier in the year (but looking a large, rather than medium cars). I ended up with a 2006 Lexus RX400h for $13,500. An happy with my decision.




80 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 2123408 10-Nov-2018 18:16
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Scott3:

 

Tell us a little more about the application for the car:

 

  • Rough distance traveled each year

     

    • Between 5,000 and 10,000.
  • Type of running (i.e. open road, city traffic).

     

    • Auckland Motorway.
  • Is it mostly 1/2 people, or will it be a family wagon?

     

    • 2-3 people, adults.
  • Any special needs (i.e. towing, off road, 7 seats etc)

     

    • Not special requirements.
  • What aspects are important (i.e. comfort / styling / efficiency / performance / handling etc)

     

    • Styling and comfort. Leather seats and reversing cameras are kind of a priority. Not too keen on retrofitted head units, etc.

 

 

 

Having owned a couple of Subarus before, we're kind of against them. Repair/parts/service costs have astronomical.

 

 

 

RAV4s are too simple/spartan.


472 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2123782 11-Nov-2018 23:04
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The average distance traveled per vehicle is understood to be around 14,000km per year. Your 5000 - 10,000km puts you quite a bit below this.

 

"Auckland Motorway" - If at commuting times this means medium to heavy traffic.


The above factors would cause me to recommend a petrol vehicle rather than a diesel.

Firstly, in this vehicle class, Petrol costs are similar to diesel + RUC costs for X-trail sized cars (in the real word diesel is often slightly cheaper - as real world fuel consumption is often a bit more than rated consumption). However purchase price, registration, maintenance and repairs are typically higher on diesel cars. Typically you need to do a lot of running to claw back the higher purchase price.

Secondly, in the age group of cars you are looking at, it is likely that diesel engines cars will have a diesel particulate filter, something that can be a real pain (can be damaged if you don't get a 20min+ run at 80+km/h each week or so.) Also expensive to replace / repair if damaged.

Thirdly, you mention comfort. Petrol engines are quieter, and have less vibration.

 

For Auckland motorway duty, unless you have some specific need, I think you could do away with 4wd, AWD. Cheaper purchase price, less fuel consumption, less parts to break etc. You don't really give up much on sealed roads with 2wd (particually with less powerful cars), perhaps a little acceleration in the wet... Note that despite what car marketing would have you believe, AWD only helps you accelerate on low traction surfaces, and does nothing for safety as breaking / cornering (without accelerator pressed) will be the same as a 2wd car.


With only 2-3 people, and styling being important, you could look at small suv's. Some recently released ones have quite novel styling (which you may love or hate). Comfort for the adult in the rear will be lesser with a smaller car of course.

Out of budget, but the Toyota C-HR is an example of a new offering in the small SUV space:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/toyota/auction-1774050850.htm?rsqid=d527323800aa4014a829c4ceef259acd

 

 

 

Davout:

 

  • What aspects are important (i.e. comfort / styling / efficiency / performance / handling etc)

     

    • Styling and comfort. Leather seats and reversing cameras are kind of a priority. Not too keen on retrofitted head units, etc.



Styling & comfort are some of the easiest things for a buyer to assess.

Wanting leather seats generally means you have to pick higher trim levels.

Reversing camera's are becoming very common these days. Was loaned a car while mine was in for a service that had a 360degree camera system was quite nice.

 


Davout:

 

Having owned a couple of Subarus before, we're kind of against them. Repair/parts/service costs have astronomical.

 

 

 

RAV4s are too simple/spartan.

 

 

The boxer engines in Subaru's do make them cost more to maintain, plus historically they have been one of the less reliable Japanese brands in NZ. The strengths of the forester (off road capability, and dynamic handling) don't seem to align with your needs anyway.

Probably would stay away from (out of warranty) euro cars if that was how you found subaru. 



Of the cars I listed above, I think the Mazda CX5 & Kia Sportage would be a good fit for your needs.


The car I brought this year (Lexus rx400h), could work for you (depending on how you like the styling. Comfort is very good. Originally was a $99,000 car. And as you would expect from a luxary car, it rides smooth, and is packed with sound deading. As with all toyota hybrids the drive train is super smooth too (except this one has 200kW on tap when you want it). Seats were the most comfortable of any of the (10+) sub $20k large SUV's we sat in. Uses about 9.5L/100km in heavy traffic, and 8L/100km on the open road.

You could keep $7k of your budget in your pocket. Walked past a brand new Rav4 in the mall yesterday, and my wife and I agreed that we prefer our car than the Rav4 that's worth 4 times as much...

Mine is basically the same as this one:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/lexus/auction-1828268550.htm?rsqid=ecfd1cef5370459987fca2023d7e409d

 


 


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