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5385 posts

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  # 2144693 13-Dec-2018 10:38
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ACC is a complusory insurance scheme.  Levies are analagous to premiums and should be proportional to risk, where possible.  The question IMO is how do you fairly assess that risk?  I would have thought ANCAP rating or similar would be a good enough proxy.  Yes people on lower incomes will pay more if they have older cars, but they are posing more of a risk.  ACC isn't a tax system and therefore doesn't need to be 'progressive'.  Life isn't always fair.  I pay higher insurance premiums and /or have reduced cover (life, travel and health) because of very generous decision I made to help someone else.

 

I also don't understand why we allow new cars to be registered that don't have air-bags, ABS and stability control.  So what if they are commercial vehicles?  Surely we want people to be safe at work?

 

Also, a big chunk of the new vehicles sold in NZ are commercial vehicles and they are the future used vehicles.  It makes sense to apply decent safety standards to these vehicles.





Mike

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  # 2144731 13-Dec-2018 11:59
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I haven't managed to see what extra this will cost me, currently driving a band 4N car (safest)


 
 
 
 


236 posts

Master Geek


  # 2144821 13-Dec-2018 14:57
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ANCAP ratings only rate the car, not the driver and it’s driver skills that are the overwhelming risk factor.

I have no problem with favoured rates for newer cars but it’s unlikely to be a factor, for people in upgrading as it’s only a small part of the cost of ownership.

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  # 2144824 13-Dec-2018 15:12
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I'm sorry but what's it changing to?




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Banana?
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  # 2144831 13-Dec-2018 15:24
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Batman: I'm sorry but what's it changing to?

 

the ACC levy portion of your rego will be the same for all vehicles (cars), instead of the 4 'bands' where 'safer' cars paid less and unsafe ones paid more. I think unsafe cars will end up saving about $30, and the safer cars end up paying about $20 more (I saw the numbers yesterday, but cannot remember or find them).


232 posts

Master Geek


  # 2144832 13-Dec-2018 15:33
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I know there has been a consultation around this and options will be presented to parliament, but I'm pretty sure nothing has actually been decided yet?

 

Have I missed a news article or something?


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  # 2144833 13-Dec-2018 15:33
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Ah that's one less (or more) smashed avocado toast a year. No biggie go for it.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2144835 13-Dec-2018 15:37
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It doesn't matter if you are the perfect driver (or not) if someone else is at fault. A better built car can help to protect you from others mistakes.

 

While not perfect, I thought the safety rating system was a good start and a big step in the right direction.

 

I guess the governments priority is in keeping the hospitals and undertakers supplied with customers.


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  # 2144857 13-Dec-2018 16:06
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nzkiwiman:

 

I haven't managed to see what extra this will cost me, currently driving a band 4N car (safest)

 

 

 

 

My 1999 E36 BMW managed a 4T which is apparently the safest of all. Even more accurate than the ANCAP ratings. Looking into the study quoted on the ACC site my car is very safe. Lucky they used that rather than the ANCAP ratings, as my cars A Pillar on the ANCAP tests is noted to be no better than an aesthetic.

 


"1. Total Secondary Safety Index – TSSI (T)

 

We look at real world crash data using TSSI. TSSI scores each vehicle on how well it protects passengers and other people involved in a crash. This removes other factors such as alcohol, age and adverse weather to give accurate results."



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  # 2144858 13-Dec-2018 16:10
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tripper1000:

 

I guess the governments priority is in keeping the hospitals and undertakers supplied with customers.

 

 

There's not likely to be any shortage of supply.

 

All this change does is spread the cost of motor accidents equally across all car owners rather than more on one group than another. Given that the risk is in fact more due to the driver than the car, that seems reasonable. Maybe you should get a discount for doing a Defensive Driving Course or similar?

 

Not to mention that the ratings seemed pretty arbitrary, especially in the first year.

 

I think you could argue that the different ratings were a "tax" on the poor, in that older, cheaper cars are less safe than newer ones, and that therefore the poor,  who can't afford a new car every year, are penalised.

 

Probably it would be fairer if it was based on mileage (or fuel usage, for ease of implementation), since the amount of driving you do would be a close(ish) approximation of your risk.

 

 


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  # 2144864 13-Dec-2018 16:20
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MikeAqua: I also don't understand why we allow new cars to be registered that don't have air-bags, ABS and stability control.  So what if they are commercial vehicles?  Surely we want people to be safe at work?


Also, a big chunk of the new vehicles sold in NZ are commercial vehicles and they are the future used vehicles.  It makes sense to apply decent safety standards to these vehicles.



Commercial vehicles should also come under the beady eye of Worksafe. Instead of concentrating on whether Joe Blogs is allowed up a ladder they can also look at the van he arrives in.

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  # 2144875 13-Dec-2018 16:58
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Bung:
MikeAqua: I also don't understand why we allow new cars to be registered that don't have air-bags, ABS and stability control.  So what if they are commercial vehicles?  Surely we want people to be safe at work?

 

Also, a big chunk of the new vehicles sold in NZ are commercial vehicles and they are the future used vehicles.  It makes sense to apply decent safety standards to these vehicles.

 



Commercial vehicles should also come under the beady eye of Worksafe. Instead of concentrating on whether Joe Blogs is allowed up a ladder they can also look at the van he arrives in.

 

 

 

Safer van = more expensive, larger size, less room for tools, lower wage, higher charge out. 

If I operate a fleet of 100 L300 vans which were much cheaper than a Mercedes Vito or VW Transporter (Very safe vans but hellishly expensive) I can provide a cheaper rate to customers and pay my staff more. Its like raising minimum wage. Anyway, Most tradies that are using these vehicles are based in cities and do not have to go far or in higher speed zones. The regional tradies mostly have utes and vehicles that are suited to the open road, A l300 doesn't do well on the open road.. So you also need to consider where they will be used and when you do it becomes a little clearer why they exist.

Anyway, with that logic lets get rid of all Bikes/Mopeds/Motorbikes and replace them with Zorbs.....



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  # 2144907 13-Dec-2018 17:59

Comparing the Mercedes Vito to the L300. The Vito only uses approx 1/2 the fuel that an L300 uses (comparing diesel models). It doesn't need servicing as often. And your employees will enjoy driving the Vito more. Because the Vito has Air conditioning.

I say the above as I own a Merc Vito. And when I was still an employee, my work van was an L300. Also the L300 is not very reliable. One of the company L300s failed a WOF due to rust at less than 10 years old. And another one cracked its cylinder head at 77,000Km. And they all had oil leaks. Which meant that often you couldn't park them on the customers driveway. Otherwise you will leave oil stains that are expensive to remove.

Compared to Worksafe going overboard in relation to scaffolding on construction sites. Providing safer vans would be far cheaper overall. And you would get better productivity from not having to wait for scaffolding to be installed and removed. And better for safety overall. As at least 10 people get killed on the roads for every workplace death.

Safety inspectors always annoyed me. As when I still had to drive the L300, I was far more likely to be killed driving to and from work than actually at work.

Edited to add

The Vito is also wider than the L300. So it still has similar load space compared to the short wheelbase L300. The Vito cabin is way larger than the L300, good for larger people. And I was even able to install a 12V fridge in my Vito. Cold drinks whenever I want.





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  # 2146487 17-Dec-2018 11:04
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Coil:

 

Safer van = more expensive, larger size, less room for tools, lower wage, higher charge out. 

 

If you smash yourself up and are off work for 6 months (or forever) what's the cost of that?  That kind of risk is never priced in. 

 

With commercial vessels if it's a safety issue you don't even blink.  There are few exemptions for age.  You suck it up and get out the chequebook.

 

I firmly believe a minimum safety standard should be applied to all new vehicles and used imports. 

 

We should also look at phasing out older vehicles that lack critical safety features - perhaps starting with seatbelts.





Mike

1391 posts

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  # 2146491 17-Dec-2018 11:15
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MikeAqua:

 

Coil:

 

Safer van = more expensive, larger size, less room for tools, lower wage, higher charge out. 

 

If you smash yourself up and are off work for 6 months (or forever) what's the cost of that?  That kind of risk is never priced in. 

 

With commercial vessels if it's a safety issue you don't even blink.  There are few exemptions for age.  You suck it up and get out the chequebook.

 

I firmly believe a minimum safety standard should be applied to all new vehicles and used imports. 

 

We should also look at phasing out older vehicles that lack critical safety features - perhaps starting with seatbelts.

 

 

Imports have to meet minimum frontal impact standards if they are newer than 20 years old. It's not just a total free-for-all. 


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