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46 posts

Geek
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  # 2223385 24-Apr-2019 21:01
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Just paid 36c per ltr less for diesel in Wanaka at McKeown's than I paid in Christchurch ...we are getting so ripped off!


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Master Geek
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  # 2223457 25-Apr-2019 07:39
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This morning Allied Rolleston was $2.05 for 91 octane and Mobile Rolleston was $2.22.

 
 
 
 


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  # 2225150 26-Apr-2019 01:00
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Linuxluver:

 

Aredwood:
Except that the government cant even make proper decisions around what should and should not be regulated. And they almost always stuff up the things that they do regulate.

EG we still have regulated copper landlines. Which only serve to leach money that could be better spent on expanding the UFB network or cellphone coverage.

Low user regulations for electricity pricing. Cheaper power for holiday homes, while lots of low income families are forced to pay more for their power.

Resource Management act/ council planning rules. Councils prioritize what they regard as “good urban design” over providing affordable housing. In reality that means houses with large front yards and tiny back yards. No privacy, nowhere for little kids to play outside without worrying about them being able to run onto the road.

The fuel taxes are bad enough, due to them hurting low income people more than high income earners. If the government tried to implement other fuel price regulations. I hate to think how badly they would stuff things up.


The landline thing is government ensuring everyone has access to telecom services. If left to the market, many people wouldn't.
Governments regulate things that need regulating. The people who moan the loudest tend to be the cheaters who resulted in regulation being required to protect others.

Market forces defined power company pricing plans......mostly. We should see power supply as akin to roads....not profit centres.

Fuel taxes are fine. Anyone who doesn't want to pay it needn't use fuel. I don't. Oil companies move petrol prices by a lot more in a year than any tax levy changes.

..
The only people I trust less than government are private business. They lie, cheat and steal. That's why we have laws, courts and regulations.

 

 

You can get a cellphone with a calling plan that includes unlimited calling for less than the cost of renting a copper landline. Sure, regulated landlines was needed last century. That does not mean that they are still needed today.

 

 

 

Market forces have nothing to do with power company pricing plans. Have a read of the Electricity Low user Pricing Regulations They say that power companies must offer low user plans, they can't charge any more than 30c per day fixed fees. Lines companies can't charge any more than 15c per day fixed fees. Steeped or tiered pricing is not allowed. And such plans must be the cheapest overall for customers who use less than the threshold. (9000 units/year lower Sth island, 8000 Units/year everywhere else). Which makes capacity based plans illegal in a practical sense, As it is almost impossible to design a capacity based plan that is both based on actual costs. Without the risk that a customer might be able to structure their usage to achieve a really low overall per unit cost. And in turn cause the power company to break the law, due to that customer getting lower bills than those on the low user plans. And similar reasons also prevent power companies from offering really cheap power in exchange for really aggressive load management.

 

The Resource Management Act makes it difficult to build large scale renewable generation. And the green party have campaigned against a few hydro generation projects as well. This makes renewable generation artificially more expensive. (more carbon emissions). The low user regulations are also indirectly racist, As Maori and Pacificia households often have more people living in them. Which means that such households often use too much power to qualify for the low user plans. Because the fixed fees as specified in the low user regulations are way too low to recover the actual fixed costs. Lines companies are forced to add large surcharges on top of the per unit fees. This makes retail electricity more expensive than LPG and other fossil fuels for lots of people. (more carbon emissions, as switching hot water to gas often means cheaper bills). The higher per unit costs make charging an EV more expensive. The higher per unit costs means that electric heating has a very high marginal cost, Therefore lots of people struggle with cold and damp houses.

 

In short, 0 thought was put into considering the environmental or social problems caused by the laws to do with power pricing in NZ.

 

Fuel taxes, Yes I can see the need for them - Only to a point though. As they are a very regressive tax (hurts poor people more than rich people). As rich people have far more options available to reduce their fuel spending if they choose to. EG - by buying EVs, moving closer to their workplace etc. Even before EVs became available, the average fuel economy of the whole vehicle fleet has been steadily improving. Which in turn means that constant fuel tax increases are required to offset the lower average tax paid per Km travelled. Replacing an inefficient ICE car with an EV or a more efficient ICE car, doen't do anything to reduce traffic congestion. And commuting costs to your job don't change much in relation to your income. So a fuel tax increase will always be more painful to someone who earns $40K per year, compared to someone who earns $400K per year.

 

Eventually RUC will have to be introduced for all vehicles. And fuel taxes used solely for emissions related costs.

 

As for trusting the government Vs private companies. In a way I have to agree with you. The admission of the (now former) Telecom CEO that they used confusion as a marketing tool, and how that enabled them to keep prices high. Would be a good example.






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  # 2225151 26-Apr-2019 01:51
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Linuxluver:
The point was, for most people the daily driving quota is a less than 100km and a hatchback is fine.....and for them, there is no need to buy petrol. An EV that can do at least 80km (still 2.5 times the daily average) can be had these days for as little as $8K......

Your use case isn't a force of nature. It's about choices you make. They come with costs.....yep. But does your huge whatever need to be used for all your driving?

This won't work for you, I guess.....but it will work just fine for most people....right now. Here's one for $7550.

Also interesting is the Hyundai Kona. They call it a "crossover SUV". I looked long and hard at my LEAF and it's configured the same way - but with more space inside. So not really a hatchback...It's a "crossover SUV". Marketing, eh... :-)

 

 

Agree that your use case is not a force of nature. But for some people, changing their use case would mean a complete change of job and career. Or maybe they rent. And even though their current house is within driving distance of a cheap EV. Will their next house also be close enough? Will that house have parking available that would allow home charging? Will there be a suitable public fast charger at a convenient location on their drive between home and work otherwise?

 

And some people just want cars that are nicer to drive, nicer interior etc. As the Nissan leaf has very few good features, apart from it being an EV. (I doubt many people would want to buy a Nissan Leaf, if it was an ICE car rather than an EV). Tesla were not the first company to make EVs. And their EVs are definitely not cheap. But people buy them, As they want an EV that is nice to drive, feature packed, and desirable to own.

 

The Leaf that you linked to above has already gone up to $7800, and there are 85 people watching that auction. And only one other Leaf on Trademe currently with a start = reserve price or buynow price of less than $10K.

 

And if you need a 6, 7, 8, seat whatever vehicle because you have a large family. Well you could argue that they shouldn't have had all those kids. But that can't be changed now.

 

Need to tow anything? Hope your budget can stretch to a Tesla Model X.






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  # 2225384 26-Apr-2019 10:13
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Filled up here* at 244.9/gallon.

 

 

[Sorry for the uselessness of this post, but can't resist winding people up a little.]

 

 

That's US$0.644/L = NZ$0.977/L and includes sales taxes, etc.

 

 

* Tupelo, MS

 


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  # 2225388 26-Apr-2019 10:29
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frankv: Filled up here* at 244.9/gallon. [Sorry for the uselessness of this post, but can't resist winding people up a little.] That's US$0.644/L = NZ$0.977/L and includes sales taxes, etc. * Tupelo, MS

 

We drove through Grand Prairie, Texas in 2004. Gas was $1-42 a gallon. NO WAY IM PAYING THAT my ex American gf said. I think we were paying about 1-32 in mid Louisiana then. Was quite funny


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2225389 26-Apr-2019 10:33
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Good to see such great results from the million dollar review of petrol pricing from this government.

 

 


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  # 2225392 26-Apr-2019 10:39
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Bluntj:

 

Good to see such great results from the million dollar review of petrol pricing from this government.

 

 

 

 

Have you got a link to the results so I can read them?  Maybe they should accept it's a problem and go by the results of the reviews done by the previous Government, as that seemed to work better. Unless it was never a problem, until Nov 2017, then it started?

 

 


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  # 2225414 26-Apr-2019 11:24
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tdgeek:

 

Bluntj:

 

Good to see such great results from the million dollar review of petrol pricing from this government.

 

 

 

 

Have you got a link to the results so I can read them?  Maybe they should accept it's a problem and go by the results of the reviews done by the previous Government, as that seemed to work better. Unless it was never a problem, until Nov 2017, then it started?

 

 

 

 

Review was completed Dec 2018 (notice a trend since then..)

 

But target release is this Dec. Just like previous thread, the report was inconclusive at early stage

 

https://comcom.govt.nz/about-us/our-role/competition-studies/market-study-into-retail-fuel#projecttab


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  # 2225420 26-Apr-2019 11:55
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Oblivian:

 

tdgeek:

 

Bluntj:

 

Good to see such great results from the million dollar review of petrol pricing from this government.

 

 

 

 

Have you got a link to the results so I can read them?  Maybe they should accept it's a problem and go by the results of the reviews done by the previous Government, as that seemed to work better. Unless it was never a problem, until Nov 2017, then it started?

 

 

 

 

Review was completed Dec 2018 (notice a trend since then..)

 

But target release is this Dec. Just like previous thread, the report was inconclusive at early stage

 

https://comcom.govt.nz/about-us/our-role/competition-studies/market-study-into-retail-fuel#projecttab

 

 

Thanks for that. I haven't noticed any trend since then. Ive seen fuel prices change due to oil prices, exchange rates, petrol voucher discounts (it got up to 50c per litre at one time), so no,. I cant pin anything as a trend, with all the other variables in mind. I'll scout through that link soon. What were the previous Governments review conclusions? 


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  # 2225424 26-Apr-2019 12:21
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And theres more public graphs

 

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/energy-statistics-and-modelling/energy-statistics/weekly-fuel-price-monitoring/

 

Don't know if I'm reading them correctly or not, but Despite 'trends' of overseas pricing etc following. At one stage, the barrel price was really really high. We were paying $2.30 in May 2018 ($2.12 Jan). It plummeted to $70US about Sept. We saw some variance (relief), and then up it went. And went, no removal of previous terms quick fix taxes to boost economy. But additions of others. Until timely since Nov/Dec last year when we saw regular pump drops (and keeping the large discount figures). And since it's climbed right back up again (one of the margin graphs there shows a big spike) to where it was when it was mid 100s and everyone still doing 10c days regularly.

 

I know we don't buy Crude as it stands with the US pricing. And it may be processed Brent or other that gets to the refinery. https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=crude-oil&months=60

 

But here we are. With the raw pricing almost where it was early 2018, about when it was 2.12. But already sitting 30 over it, and I don't think the accumulated 6C/term taxes have quite made up the majority of that.


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  # 2225426 26-Apr-2019 12:29
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Oblivian:

 

And theres more public graphs

 

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/energy-statistics-and-modelling/energy-statistics/weekly-fuel-price-monitoring/

 

Don't know if I'm reading them correctly or not, but Despite 'trends' of overseas pricing etc following. At one stage, the barrel price was really really high. We were paying $2.30 in May 2018 ($2.12 Jan). It plummeted to $70US about Sept. We saw some variance (relief), and then up it went. And went, no removal of previous terms quick fix taxes to boost economy. But additions of others. Until timely since Nov/Dec last year when we saw regular pump drops (and keeping the large discount figures). And since it's climbed right back up again (one of the margin graphs there shows a big spike) to where it was when it was mid 100s and everyone still doing 10c days regularly.

 

I know we don't buy Crude as it stands with the US pricing. And it may be processed Brent or other that gets to the refinery. https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=crude-oil&months=60

 

But here we are. With the raw pricing almost where it was early 2018, about when it was 2.12. But already sitting 30 over it, and I don't think the accumulated 6C/term taxes have quite made up the majority of that.

 

 

Do we know the lag? I.e. when the fuel arrived at Marsden Point, when did we buy that, and when will petrol then arrive at a pump? And do we hedge, in whuch case out price is a hedged price not market, so we might get swings and roundabout on that as well? I.e. paid what is right now a lower price then todays market, or paid more than if we bought with no hedging. This would misalign pump prices with market prices even if the lag was factored in


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  # 2225526 26-Apr-2019 13:36
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I have no doubt it is bulk stored and hedged.

But then they wouldn't need to up every station pump price at once in that case. They don't all get filled at the same time from the same stocks. And it's those lacking facts that AA pick on every time there is an unexplained change.

The petrol stations are buying the refined product. Not the raw product. So even that buffer can't be proven.

And even when there is a shortage one company can pull stock from another. Been that way for a long time. Which can create more smoke.

The 3 largest domestic oil companies own bulk storage facilities throughout New Zealand and have agreements in place that allow access to each others' storage facilities. This enables them to draw stock from any location — if they have authorisation and sufficient stock in another location

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  # 2225529 26-Apr-2019 13:38
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Also believe that is why Qld work on spot pricing. It is generally raised during the start of the week. And then lowers as stock consumption adjusts. Time your fills right and you are home and hosed.

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  # 2225533 26-Apr-2019 13:47
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Oblivian: Also believe that is why Qld work on spot pricing. It is generally raised during the start of the week. And then lowers as stock consumption adjusts. Time your fills right and you are home and hosed.

 

How can they spot price, they cant buy on Saturday off the refinery that bought much earlier and sell on Monday?

 

So what have we done in past years


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