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  # 2255812 11-Jun-2019 10:22
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Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

Do you mean build quality or a fault?

 

Build quality in this thread relates to an inherent lower overall build quality. Mentioned often with Tesla here and elsewhere. Faults does not equal build quality. All cars have had faults or recalls.

 

But defend away

 

 

Alright mate ;)

 

To me, a leaking charge port is a quality issue and a fairly big one considering the current going through that area. 

 

 

Koolaid is fine, I used to drink that with my Apple stuff!  :-)     If there were issues all over the car, then that's quality. If its generally a once only issue, its a fault. Otherwise you'd have to say that no product that existed or has ever existed is good quality

 

 

All I'm saying is that other EV manufacturers aren't faultless, even those that have been making cars for decades. At least in Tesla's case the quality issues are really just paint and panel gaps, not life threatening quality issues like in the Etron.  

 

 

Tesla is a premium product, like Apple. Paint and panel gaps shows a lack of detail and quality control. The brake issue that showed it has poor braking, that seemingly was not known and this not tested, or quality controlled, and they had to be told is very poor IMHO. Im not saying that to pick on you or Tesla, but think about it

 

The other issue I have and this applies to all that do this, is that there seems to be a trend towards fly by wire. As with aircraft, more and more is taken away for the driver and managed by 0's and 1's. That's a worry. It has reduced pilots workload and salaries in aviation, but do we want everything in a car being managed by a computer that can fail, or freeze, or have a bug? I want brakes to be my brakes 


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2255868 11-Jun-2019 10:55
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

Do you mean build quality or a fault?

 

Build quality in this thread relates to an inherent lower overall build quality. Mentioned often with Tesla here and elsewhere. Faults does not equal build quality. All cars have had faults or recalls.

 

But defend away

 

 

Alright mate ;)

 

To me, a leaking charge port is a quality issue and a fairly big one considering the current going through that area. 

 

 

Koolaid is fine, I used to drink that with my Apple stuff!  :-)     If there were issues all over the car, then that's quality. If its generally a once only issue, its a fault. Otherwise you'd have to say that no product that existed or has ever existed is good quality

 

 

All I'm saying is that other EV manufacturers aren't faultless, even those that have been making cars for decades. At least in Tesla's case the quality issues are really just paint and panel gaps, not life threatening quality issues like in the Etron.  

 

 

Tesla is a premium product, like Apple. Paint and panel gaps shows a lack of detail and quality control. The brake issue that showed it has poor braking, that seemingly was not known and this not tested, or quality controlled, and they had to be told is very poor IMHO. Im not saying that to pick on you or Tesla, but think about it

 

The other issue I have and this applies to all that do this, is that there seems to be a trend towards fly by wire. As with aircraft, more and more is taken away for the driver and managed by 0's and 1's. That's a worry. It has reduced pilots workload and salaries in aviation, but do we want everything in a car being managed by a computer that can fail, or freeze, or have a bug? I want brakes to be my brakes 

 

 

Again, paint and panel gaps in my eyes are minor quality issues. To you they're clearly show stoppers.  The issues are easy to fix either before or after delivery and have no impact on how the car works. The fact that Tesla has also much improved this means I don't really see the need to worry about it but again, you clearly do.  The brake issue IS something I care about and yeah, it's not great that it was missed but that seems to have been the only real issue that impacts the safety of the car and was fixed very quickly.  The car has since gone on to be safety tested and got the "safest car in the world" rating.  However, I see you consider that a quality issue too so I'm glad you've come around to the fact that the leaky charge port on the Audi Etron is also a quality issue.

 

Tesla doesn't use fly by wire on the Model 3 for the brakes (or steering)


 
 
 
 


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  # 2255880 11-Jun-2019 11:26
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Obraik:

 

 

 

Again, paint and panel gaps in my eyes are minor quality issues. To you they're clearly show stoppers.  The issues are easy to fix either before or after delivery and have no impact on how the car works. The fact that Tesla has also much improved this means I don't really see the need to worry about it but again, you clearly do.  The brake issue IS something I care about and yeah, it's not great that it was missed but that seems to have been the only real issue that impacts the safety of the car and was fixed very quickly.  The car has since gone on to be safety tested and got the "safest car in the world" rating.  However, I see you consider that a quality issue too so I'm glad you've come around to the fact that the leaky charge port on the Audi Etron is also a quality issue.

 

Tesla doesn't use fly by wire on the Model 3 for the brakes (or steering)

 

 

You are making stuff up again. If the finish is not important to you thats ok, to me it shows a lack of care, that goes beyond superficial appearances. The lack of care of braking issues is one bad example of lack of care, lack of testing.

 

I never said its a show stopper.

 

Paint and panel don't affect how the car works, apart from random squeaks, brakes do

 

Tesla has much improved. Good words. Thats all I see is good words

 

So brakes was missed, so that means by default that its the only issue that was missed? Ok

 

Safest car in the world? Marketing. It has brakes that cannot match an F-150 and its the safest car in the world?

 

Ive already explained my meaning of a quality issue, so based on your meaning, the word quality should be removed from the dictionery as there is no quality anywhere, unless you can name a product that has never had a fault.

 

Fly by wire is computer control, where computers sit between the lever or button and the controlled surface. That the Tesla brakes have computer control whereby depressing the pedal causes the computer to brake is fly by wire. It doesn't work very well, so they updated the software that manages the brakes. Fly by wire. 


323 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2255896 11-Jun-2019 11:48
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

Again, paint and panel gaps in my eyes are minor quality issues. To you they're clearly show stoppers.  The issues are easy to fix either before or after delivery and have no impact on how the car works. The fact that Tesla has also much improved this means I don't really see the need to worry about it but again, you clearly do.  The brake issue IS something I care about and yeah, it's not great that it was missed but that seems to have been the only real issue that impacts the safety of the car and was fixed very quickly.  The car has since gone on to be safety tested and got the "safest car in the world" rating.  However, I see you consider that a quality issue too so I'm glad you've come around to the fact that the leaky charge port on the Audi Etron is also a quality issue.

 

Tesla doesn't use fly by wire on the Model 3 for the brakes (or steering)

 

 

You are making stuff up again. If the finish is not important to you thats ok, to me it shows a lack of care, that goes beyond superficial appearances. The lack of care of braking issues is one bad example of lack of care, lack of testing.

 

I never said its a show stopper.

 

Paint and panel don't affect how the car works, apart from random squeaks, brakes do

 

Tesla has much improved. Good words. Thats all I see is good words

 

So brakes was missed, so that means by default that its the only issue that was missed? Ok

 

Safest car in the world? Marketing. It has brakes that cannot match an F-150 and its the safest car in the world?

 

Ive already explained my meaning of a quality issue, so based on your meaning, the word quality should be removed from the dictionery as there is no quality anywhere, unless you can name a product that has never had a fault.

 

Fly by wire is computer control, where computers sit between the lever or button and the controlled surface. That the Tesla brakes have computer control whereby depressing the pedal causes the computer to brake is fly by wire. It doesn't work very well, so they updated the software that manages the brakes. Fly by wire. 

 

 

What exactly am I making up? I only assume panel and paint issues are a show stopper to you because you've been making it out to be a big deal in every post.  You've also confused me on what you consider a quality issue because you wrote that the brake issue the Model 3 had was a quality control issue but the leaky Audi Etron charge port is a fault.  So what is it, a fault or a quality issue? 

 

The "Safest car in the world" title doesn't come from Tesla but the NHTSA in the USA - the government department tasked with giving cars safety ratings.

 

Fly by wire generally means you do not interact with the system directly, instead you directly interact with a computer which then controls the system.  The brakes on the Model 3 are not fly by wire as you are directly interacting with the brakes but your input is altered by a computer.  In a fly by wire system, without power the brakes wouldn't work.  Most cars have had computers controlling/altering the input on brakes since ABS became standard 

 

 


264 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2255898 11-Jun-2019 11:52
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tdgeek:

 

Fly by wire is computer control, where computers sit between the lever or button and the controlled surface. That the Tesla brakes have computer control whereby depressing the pedal causes the computer to brake is fly by wire. It doesn't work very well, so they updated the software that manages the brakes. Fly by wire. 

 

 

 

 

No, it's not. Fly by wire creates a material gap between the input interface (Joystick, or brake pedal in this example) and the output (Flaps, ailerons, or the brake cylinders). The Tesla brakes are still directly physically linked to the brake pedal via the hydraulic system - just the same as any other car in the world. With the car turned off and the battery removed, the brakes will still work (greatly reduced due to no hydraulic boost pressure, but the calipers will still close none-the-less).

 

The update would have improved the performance of the ABS system, not the normal braking system. Sure, it monitors the brakes - but it won't intervene until it needs to. Every (modern) car has ABS. Therefore, by your definition, every modern car is fly-by-wire?


16972 posts

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  # 2255900 11-Jun-2019 11:56
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Obraik:

 

 

 

What exactly am I making up? I only assume panel and paint issues are a show stopper to you because you've been making it out to be a big deal in every post.  You've also confused me on what you consider a quality issue because you wrote that the brake issue the Model 3 had was a quality control issue but the leaky Audi Etron charge port is a fault.  So what is it, a fault or a quality issue? 

 

The "Safest car in the world" title doesn't come from Tesla but the NHTSA in the USA - the government department tasked with giving cars safety ratings.

 

Fly by wire generally means you do not interact with the system directly, instead you directly interact with a computer which then controls the system.  The brakes on the Model 3 are not fly by wire as you are directly interacting with the brakes but your input is altered by a computer.  In a fly by wire system, without power the brakes wouldn't work.  Most cars have had computers controlling/altering the input on brakes since ABS became standard 

 

 

 

 

I have explained my definition of quality at least twice. Paint and panel is actually what you said. The US govt dept ta;kimng aboityu a US car, guven that all other US cars are yesterdays news? Yep, ok, Unbiased.

 

In non fly by wire you depress the brake, and that moves cables, levers, gizmo's in line with your input. Its all physics. In fly by wire your input is fed to a computer that takes over and it manages the cables and gizmos. One extra step where you are at the mercy of a computer. Computer aids are one thing, that is a step past that, more areas of potential failure. There is a big difference between using computers to react faster than a human, to a computer being responsible for braking. Ask those who died because of aviation automation 


16972 posts

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  # 2255941 11-Jun-2019 12:02
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Jeeves:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fly by wire is computer control, where computers sit between the lever or button and the controlled surface. That the Tesla brakes have computer control whereby depressing the pedal causes the computer to brake is fly by wire. It doesn't work very well, so they updated the software that manages the brakes. Fly by wire. 

 

 

 

 

No, it's not. Fly by wire creates a material gap between the input interface (Joystick, or brake pedal in this example) and the output (Flaps, ailerons, or the brake cylinders). The Tesla brakes are still directly physically linked to the brake pedal via the hydraulic system - just the same as any other car in the world. With the car turned off and the battery removed, the brakes will still work (greatly reduced due to no hydraulic boost pressure, but the calipers will still close none-the-less).

 

The update would have improved the performance of the ABS system, not the normal braking system. Sure, it monitors the brakes - but it won't intervene until it needs to. Every (modern) car has ABS. Therefore, by your definition, every modern car is fly-by-wire?

 

 

ABS is an aid. The performance of the brakes is determined by software, that is not an aid. If ABS failed you have standard brakes , if computer controlled brakes fail, you have brakes with no hydraulic boost, you may as well jump out of the car.


 
 
 
 


323 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2255944 11-Jun-2019 12:10
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

What exactly am I making up? I only assume panel and paint issues are a show stopper to you because you've been making it out to be a big deal in every post.  You've also confused me on what you consider a quality issue because you wrote that the brake issue the Model 3 had was a quality control issue but the leaky Audi Etron charge port is a fault.  So what is it, a fault or a quality issue? 

 

The "Safest car in the world" title doesn't come from Tesla but the NHTSA in the USA - the government department tasked with giving cars safety ratings.

 

Fly by wire generally means you do not interact with the system directly, instead you directly interact with a computer which then controls the system.  The brakes on the Model 3 are not fly by wire as you are directly interacting with the brakes but your input is altered by a computer.  In a fly by wire system, without power the brakes wouldn't work.  Most cars have had computers controlling/altering the input on brakes since ABS became standard 

 

 

 

 

I have explained my definition of quality at least twice. Paint and panel is actually what you said. The US govt dept ta;kimng aboityu a US car, guven that all other US cars are yesterdays news? Yep, ok, Unbiased.

 

In non fly by wire you depress the brake, and that moves cables, levers, gizmo's in line with your input. Its all physics. In fly by wire your input is fed to a computer that takes over and it manages the cables and gizmos. One extra step where you are at the mercy of a computer. Computer aids are one thing, that is a step past that, more areas of potential failure. There is a big difference between using computers to react faster than a human, to a computer being responsible for braking. Ask those who died because of aviation automation 

 

 

Have you?  So what do you consider the Audi Etron leaky charge port, a quality issue or a fault?

 

Are you suggesting a conspiracy that the NHTSA is favouring US cars and putting its citizens in danger by giving false safety reports?  As also mentioned by @jeeves, the Model 3 has a traditional hydraulic brake system like any other car.  It's not fly by wire.  


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  # 2255946 11-Jun-2019 12:13
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Again going round in circles. If you are happy that the overall build quality meets your needs, the functions and their reliability meets your needs, and you feel the price is value for money, then that's all good

 

Me, personally, I don't feel that way. I'm looking at a 64kWh Hyundai, but again that's 40k extra than the ICE version. So its not value yet


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  # 2255952 11-Jun-2019 12:18
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Obraik:

 

 

 

Have you?  So what do you consider the Audi Etron leaky charge port, a quality issue or a fault?

 

Are you suggesting a conspiracy that the NHTSA is favouring US cars and putting its citizens in danger by giving false safety reports?  As also mentioned by @jeeves, the Model 3 has a traditional hydraulic brake system like any other car.  It's not fly by wire.  

 

 

Calm down

 

Yes I have, at least twice

 

Its a fault. If Rolls Royce had a similar fault, would you say Rolls Royce is a brand with low quality? No.

 

Its not unheard of, and for the USA ,its very typical to favour their own, and "enhance" US products.

 

In your opinion as a die hard fan

 

OMG, bye for now, I'll go to an Apple thread.....  :-)

 

 

 

 

 

Edit, missed out the conspiracy exagerration


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2255963 11-Jun-2019 12:39
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

Have you?  So what do you consider the Audi Etron leaky charge port, a quality issue or a fault?

 

Are you suggesting a conspiracy that the NHTSA is favouring US cars and putting its citizens in danger by giving false safety reports?  As also mentioned by @jeeves, the Model 3 has a traditional hydraulic brake system like any other car.  It's not fly by wire.  

 

 

Calm down

 

Yes I have, at least twice

 

Its a fault. If Rolls Royce had a similar fault, would you say Rolls Royce is a brand with low quality? No.

 

Its not unheard of, and for the USA ,its very typical to favour their own, and "enhance" US products.

 

In your opinion as a die hard fan

 

OMG, bye for now, I'll go to an Apple thread.....  :-)

 

 

 

 

 

Edit, missed out the conspiracy exagerration

 

 

But then you called the brake issue on the Model 3 a quality issue.  Soooo, if you're calling this issue with the Etron a fault "that all car companies have" then you'd have to call the brake issue with the Model 3 a fault too, right?

 

Sorry but no, I don't think it's very typical for a department in the USA responsible for giving safety ratings to lie and put its own citizens in danger.  They give cars from other US car companies (such as Jeep) worse ratings than European cars and they let you download a report with all the technical details on how the safety test was performed with detailed results.  Unless you can provide some evidence that this is what's happening, this is a conspiracy you've made up.


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  # 2255970 11-Jun-2019 12:50
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Obraik:

 

 

 

But then you called the brake issue on the Model 3 a quality issue.  Soooo, if you're calling this issue with the Etron a fault "that all car companies have" then you'd have to call the brake issue with the Model 3 a fault too, right?

 

Sorry but no, I don't think it's very typical for a department in the USA responsible for giving safety ratings to lie and put its own citizens in danger.  They give cars from other US car companies (such as Jeep) worse ratings than European cars and they let you download a report with all the technical details on how the safety test was performed with detailed results.  Unless you can provide some evidence that this is what's happening, this is a conspiracy you've made up.

 

 

No, I didnt. When you have a series of issues that's quality. When you have one, or very infrequent, that's a fault

 

Geez, stop the exxageration. I say enhance you say lie and put people in danger. Danger, thats sensationalism. If they say its the safest car in the world, and its not, that doesn't means it's a dangerous car. Your fanism is affecting common sense.

 

Lets move on


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Master Geek
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  # 2256034 11-Jun-2019 13:16
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I just wasted 10 minutes reading this thread. Seriously TGGeek, you are just stirring the water, maybe another thread would be better for you to participate in.


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2256039 11-Jun-2019 13:26
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tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

But then you called the brake issue on the Model 3 a quality issue.  Soooo, if you're calling this issue with the Etron a fault "that all car companies have" then you'd have to call the brake issue with the Model 3 a fault too, right?

 

Sorry but no, I don't think it's very typical for a department in the USA responsible for giving safety ratings to lie and put its own citizens in danger.  They give cars from other US car companies (such as Jeep) worse ratings than European cars and they let you download a report with all the technical details on how the safety test was performed with detailed results.  Unless you can provide some evidence that this is what's happening, this is a conspiracy you've made up.

 

 

No, I didnt. When you have a series of issues that's quality. When you have one, or very infrequent, that's a fault

 

Geez, stop the exxageration. I say enhance you say lie and put people in danger. Danger, thats sensationalism. If they say its the safest car in the world, and its not, that doesn't means it's a dangerous car. Your fanism is affecting common sense.

 

Lets move on

 

 

lol, "Enhancing" the results would mean falsifying the results ie. lying about the results. So yes, you accused the NHTS of lying, that's not an exaggeration lol.

 

I'd love to move on, but I'm not gonna sit back and ignore exaggerations and made up conspiracies.


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  # 2256055 11-Jun-2019 13:39
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Obraik:

 

tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

 

 

But then you called the brake issue on the Model 3 a quality issue.  Soooo, if you're calling this issue with the Etron a fault "that all car companies have" then you'd have to call the brake issue with the Model 3 a fault too, right?

 

Sorry but no, I don't think it's very typical for a department in the USA responsible for giving safety ratings to lie and put its own citizens in danger.  They give cars from other US car companies (such as Jeep) worse ratings than European cars and they let you download a report with all the technical details on how the safety test was performed with detailed results.  Unless you can provide some evidence that this is what's happening, this is a conspiracy you've made up.

 

 

No, I didnt. When you have a series of issues that's quality. When you have one, or very infrequent, that's a fault

 

Geez, stop the exxageration. I say enhance you say lie and put people in danger. Danger, thats sensationalism. If they say its the safest car in the world, and its not, that doesn't means it's a dangerous car. Your fanism is affecting common sense.

 

Lets move on

 

 

lol, "Enhancing" the results would mean falsifying the results ie. lying about the results. So yes, you accused the NHTS of lying, that's not an exaggeration lol.

 

I'd love to move on, but I'm not gonna sit back and ignore exaggerations and made up conspiracies.

 

 

Where is the evidence that American comments on an American car which has a very out there but locally popular American multi billoinaire shareholder, who may or may not have passed on election donations.........................   I dont know that, neither do you, but we both know America is corrupt. And thats not just the  current despot wannabee. So, we don't really know the validity of the praise. Especially if the brakes were dud


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