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3691 posts

Uber Geek


  #2421219 14-Feb-2020 20:22
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It is expensive, and no one would argue that.

But I've heard of it describes as the "super car for the masses"

Consider a Model 3 Performance long-range AWD can do 0-60 MPH in 3.9 seconds.

Similar times for 2020 cars, in NZ$:

Dodge Charger R/T Scat Pack
$86,000

Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium
$97,000

BMW M340i (usually considered similar in luxury)
$120,000

BMW Z4 M40i
$137,000

I'd argue you'd get a heck of a more reliable car, with less mechanical problems with the Tesla, based on the lack of moving parts compared to a petrol engine.

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  #2421243 14-Feb-2020 22:23
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kingdragonfly: 

I'd argue you'd get a heck of a more reliable car, with less mechanical problems with the Tesla, based on the lack of moving parts compared to a petrol engine.

 

I agree an EV will (at least should) be more reliable beacuse of the lower component count in the electric engine.

 

However the mechanical parts of the respective types of engines are only one small part of the reliability/running cost equation. Today's ICE engines have a lot of electronic's controlling them, I suspect the EV's have equivalent systems as well. As cars become more reliant on electronics the cost of repairs in this area will escalate. This won't matter if it's an ICE or EV.

 

You only need to watch the video on the EV garage to see that just like an ICE there's plenty that can need attention on an EV.

 

Over the years I have spent a lot more on steering, transmissions, brakes, suspension, tyres, HVAC, engine control systems, and components like electric windows etc (all parts an EV also has) than I have on the the mechanical bits of the engines.

 

Over the long term I don't see a signifcant cost difference between an ICE or an EV in these types of costs.

 

 





Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
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753 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2421254 15-Feb-2020 00:28
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kingdragonfly: It is expensive, and no one would argue that.

But I've heard of it describes as the "super car for the masses"

Consider a Model 3 Performance long-range AWD can do 0-60 MPH in 3.9 seconds.

Similar times for 2020 cars, in NZ$:

Dodge Charger R/T Scat Pack
$86,000

Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium
$97,000

BMW M340i (usually considered similar in luxury)
$120,000

BMW Z4 M40i
$137,000

I'd argue you'd get a heck of a more reliable car, with less mechanical problems with the Tesla, based on the lack of moving parts compared to a petrol engine.

 

Ahem EDIT for not reading your post properly!

 

 

 

Performance comparison based on a quick google:

 

     

  1. Long Range Performance = 3.4s @ $110k. https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/model3/design#battery
  2. 2019 Dodge = 4.7s
  3. Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium = 4.4s
  4. BMW M340i = 4.7s
  5. BMW Z4 M40i = 4.5s

 

 

 

So the Tesla is truckloads faster than ALL of these.

 

I do realise for many people this is a meaningless stat - but the Performance Model 3 is in a different league in terms of 0-100km/h to all of the above.

 

It is in fact in much more expensive company ie. Aston Martin, AMG, Porsche country: https://www.motortrend.com/news/the-21-quickest-production-cars-motortrend-tested-in-2018/

 

 

 

For me though - its the circa $6k pa I would save on gas compared to my 6.0 V8 - which is it's most attractive feature - and is why I will eventually end up buying a Model 3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


3691 posts

Uber Geek


  #2421262 15-Feb-2020 06:52
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I was using this website

https://www.zeroto60times.com/2020s-car-0-60-specs/

It showed them all doing 3.9 seconds 0-60.

But having said that I did watched a video of a Tesla model 3 versus a Dodge Charger R/T. Only modification on the Tesla was removing seats. I'd the Dodge had some minimal upgrades, such as racing slicks.

The Tesla blew him away, which was a consistent theme.


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  #2421276 15-Feb-2020 08:32
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Luckily car ownership is more than a game of Top Trumps.





Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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  #2421594 15-Feb-2020 22:02
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I cannot think of too many times in the 35 years I have been driving when being able to do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds has been essential...!






258 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2421595 15-Feb-2020 22:04
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Its not essential but it is usable...


 
 
 
 


753 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2421597 15-Feb-2020 22:09
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Geektastic:

 

I cannot think of too many times in the 35 years I have been driving when being able to do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds has been essential...!

 

 

Essential? No.

 

Fun? Yes.

 

YMMV.

 

 

 

 


10 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2421599 15-Feb-2020 22:12
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kingdragonfly: It is expensive, and no one would argue that.

But I've heard of it describes as the "super car for the masses"

Consider a Model 3 Performance long-range AWD can do 0-60 MPH in 3.9 seconds.

Similar times for 2020 cars, in NZ$:

Dodge Charger R/T Scat Pack
$86,000

Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium
$97,000

BMW M340i (usually considered similar in luxury)
$120,000

BMW Z4 M40i
$137,000

I'd argue you'd get a heck of a more reliable car, with less mechanical problems with the Tesla, based on the lack of moving parts compared to a petrol engine.

 

 

 

”A man who cannot live beyond his means is severely lacking in imagination” - Oscar Wilde


4319 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2421604 15-Feb-2020 22:50
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Geektastic:

 

I cannot think of too many times in the 35 years I have been driving when being able to do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds has been essential...!

 

 

Not quite needing 0-60 in 4 seconds, but I have needed all the power I had in a car (205kw Legacy) exactly once. I was turning left off Mt Eden road into Fairview Rd in Auckland in peak traffic. There is a bus stop there, just south of the intersection and a Bus was stationary at it. It wasn't indicating so I carried on, watching very closely - and he pulled out at top speed as I had started turning left. There was a car waiting to turn right from Fairview rd so I couldn't run wide into that lane... Somehow he didn't see me but fortunately I saw him (bus) gun it... I've only ever had to use all the power at my disposal once, and had good tyres, and this was it. I was in second and kicked the clutch, mashed the gas and then dumped the clutch... The bus JUST missed me and in a slower car it would have at least hit the back of me and likely put me into the car coming out of Fairview. As it was  there was a massive surge forward, and a huge smell of clutch/figuratively soiled undies. - but no contact.

 

That said, that's ONCE in over 30 years driving on the road.

 

A few times I have electively used good power to pass in a shorter space than most cars could, but need? Once. Mind you - it made a big enough impression to ensure that since then I have always had cars with good power, good tyres and as much safety as can be packed in.

 

N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


3691 posts

Uber Geek


  #2421639 16-Feb-2020 08:55
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I realize 0-60 times is almost always a pointless area of comparison.

But there a lot of silliness with cars and trucks. For example everything is an SUV's: SUV / CUV / sport SUV / luxury SUV / exotic SUV. Usually these are described as "best in class", "premium", "award winning". "industry first"

Also mostly pointless, vehicles with low profile tires, specialized suspensions, cars with brightly painted brake calipers, custom exhausts, cars playing engine noises through the stereo, electronic door handles, oversized wheels, piano black interiors, plastic chrome, an EV that has "turbo" in the model name, fake vents, exhaust tips.

I think of 0-60 times as yet another argument destroyed against having an EV,

No one can say: "Jeez I'd buy an EV but the performance is so bad..."

Fake engine sounds:

5583 posts

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  #2421642 16-Feb-2020 09:13
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I don't really care about the 0-100km thing. I always thought my Nissan LEAF pretty zoomy compared to my previous Mazda Demio (Heh. )

But the Model 3 is in a whole other realm! Even in Chill mode it's crazy. The few times I've driven it in Sport mode have been....'exciting' to say the least.




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258 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2421643 16-Feb-2020 09:14
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Chill mode is as quick as my RX-8 was lol


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Uber Geek

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  #2421769 16-Feb-2020 11:42
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Talkiet:

 

Geektastic:

 

I cannot think of too many times in the 35 years I have been driving when being able to do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds has been essential...!

 

 

Not quite needing 0-60 in 4 seconds, but I have needed all the power I had in a car (205kw Legacy) exactly once. I was turning left off Mt Eden road into Fairview Rd in Auckland in peak traffic. There is a bus stop there, just south of the intersection and a Bus was stationary at it. It wasn't indicating so I carried on, watching very closely - and he pulled out at top speed as I had started turning left. There was a car waiting to turn right from Fairview rd so I couldn't run wide into that lane... Somehow he didn't see me but fortunately I saw him (bus) gun it... I've only ever had to use all the power at my disposal once, and had good tyres, and this was it. I was in second and kicked the clutch, mashed the gas and then dumped the clutch... The bus JUST missed me and in a slower car it would have at least hit the back of me and likely put me into the car coming out of Fairview. As it was  there was a massive surge forward, and a huge smell of clutch/figuratively soiled undies. - but no contact.

 

That said, that's ONCE in over 30 years driving on the road.

 

A few times I have electively used good power to pass in a shorter space than most cars could, but need? Once. Mind you - it made a big enough impression to ensure that since then I have always had cars with good power, good tyres and as much safety as can be packed in.

 

N

 

 

 

 

I have certainly needed power but usually in the 50mph - 120mph area to recover from errors in judgement when overtaking.

 

 

 

One memorable time was in France on my way to Le Mans for the 24hour. I was in my Saab 93 Viggen (with additional bits and pieces from Saab specialists Abbot Racing) and it was RHD. Of course, France is the other way round so I asked my friend in the passenger seat to look and see if it was clear to overtake. He said it was, so we pulled out and shot down the line of traffic.

 

 

 

Imagine my horror when ahead of us, out of a completely hidden dip, rose an articulated lorry...! I stamped hard on the accelerator and by the end of the line when we ducked back in (French drivers are not known for letting cars with English plates back in..!) we were doing about 130mph and actually had about 10 seconds in hand before the lorry reached us. Never again though! We were both in need of clean Y Fronts after that. The foolishness of youth.

 

That Saab actually did 50-70 in 4th faster than a Ferrari Testarossa according to one review I read. I sold it after 12 months because I knew that I would either die or lose my licence if I kept it.

 

 

 

"A high-powered version of the Saab 9-3, the "Viggen" (English: Thunderbolt), was marketed from 1999 to 2002. It was named after the Saab 37 Viggen aircraft.

 

The Viggen included a turbocharged 2.3 L engine (B235R). Initially it was rated at 225 bhp (168 kW; 228 PS) and later at 230 bhp (172 kW; 233 PS) on 1.0 bar (15 psi) of boost from its Mitsubishi TD04-HL15-5 turbocharger. The cars were equipped with a higher capacity intercooler, performance tuned ECU, flow through muffler and tip, heavy duty clutch and pressure plate, stiffened and lowered springs, firmer dampers, as well as stronger CV joints and driveshafts.

 

In 1999, the Viggen was the first 9-3 to use Saab's Trionic 7 engine management system. The 2001 model year introduced a Traction Control System (TCS). The TCS was later made available in the SE line.

 

The car featured a rear wing that required relocating the radio antenna, aerodynamically designed bumpers and side skirts, special bolstered and colored leather seats (in four colors: black with black inserts (charcoal), black with blue inserts (deep blue), black with orange inserts (flame ochre), or tan with tan inserts), sportier suspension, as well as bigger wheels and upgraded brakes."






258 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2421770 16-Feb-2020 11:49
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Its not just the power, its the responsiveness and the accessibility of it. 

 

 

 

its there when I want it irrespective of the conditions and I dont have to do anything, no gear changes no kick down no spooling up.


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