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  # 2250146 3-Jun-2019 00:18
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Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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# 2250152 3-Jun-2019 01:27
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Tesla still hasn't developed a sustainable business. They have some interesting products but real issues getting to scale. They haven't shown an ability to do that yet.

The thing the conventional companies know how to do is manufacture efficiently at scale. If Tesla don't solve that problem fast they will become a takeover target.

In that respect they ARE just another startup.

 

Can you substantiate those statements? What do you mean they haven't developed a sustainable business? There is no point in mass producing cars if no body wants to buy or can afford them. They're selling electric cars, they're not supposed to be manufacturing equivalent volumes of traditional vehicles "at scale" when there isn't enough demand for them yet. They're plodding along, sniping sales from traditional manufacturers.. Tesla is already outselling BMW and Mercedes in the US.. 

 

"On Wednesday, the company announced that it delivered more than 90,000 vehicles in the last quarter of 2018, which was an eight percent increase from the third quarter. Tesla sold 10,000 more cars and SUVs than BMW in Q4 and had already outpaced Mercedes-Benz in Q3, according to Forbes."

 

China demand is exploding, a market your traditional American manufacturers are struggle getting into. They are about to become even more sustainable than most American car companies when GigaFactory 3 comes online in China later this year. 

 

Their business model is sustainable whether you want to acknowledge it or not.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2250158 3-Jun-2019 01:47
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premiumtouring:

 

Tesla still hasn't developed a sustainable business. They have some interesting products but real issues getting to scale. They haven't shown an ability to do that yet.

The thing the conventional companies know how to do is manufacture efficiently at scale. If Tesla don't solve that problem fast they will become a takeover target.

In that respect they ARE just another startup.

 

Can you substantiate those statements? What do you mean they haven't developed a sustainable business? There is no point in mass producing cars if no body wants to buy or can afford them. They're selling electric cars, they're not supposed to be manufacturing equivalent volumes of traditional vehicles "at scale" when there isn't enough demand for them yet. They're plodding along, sniping sales from traditional manufacturers.. Tesla is already outselling BMW and Mercedes in the US.. 

 

"On Wednesday, the company announced that it delivered more than 90,000 vehicles in the last quarter of 2018, which was an eight percent increase from the third quarter. Tesla sold 10,000 more cars and SUVs than BMW in Q4 and had already outpaced Mercedes-Benz in Q3, according to Forbes."

 

China demand is exploding, a market your traditional American manufacturers are struggle getting into. They are about to become even more sustainable than most American car companies when GigaFactory 3 comes online in China later this year. 

 

Their business model is sustainable whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

 

They don't make money and have negative cash flows. They also had a massive shortfall in deliveries in Q1 after making money in Q4. That's clearly not sustainable.

 

Musk claimed they would be profitable in Q1 and then they announce a huge loss.

 

Tesla is an interesting company but they haven't yet got a self sustaining model. They also have to pay the debt for the Chinese factory in 2020 so they have a very short time to make it profitable. They havemn't shown any ability to manage their costs in line with their financial planning.

 

It doesn't mean they can't have a successful business but it doesn't mean they will either.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/24/18514427/tesla-q1-2019-loss-model-3-elon-musk-earnings

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/teslas-financial-problems-return-2019-2019-3

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/18629166/elon-musk-tesla-money-changes-cfo-employee-expenses

 

 

 

 


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  # 2250240 3-Jun-2019 10:45
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Just looking at the order site.
So ORCs of $1060. Assuming the registration portion of that is $350 (approx), where does the other $700 dollars come from?
Does it include a full tank of electrons? Maybe they fill the window washer up? If it’s to do things like remove the plastic cover from the seats, then fine I’ll do that myself.
It is a rort that infects most car dealers, but Tesla, to its credit, at least states what the ORCs are. And you know what the final cost is from the get go.
Toyota avoids all this malarkey now by just stating a Toyota Driveaway Price. So Tesla is similar, but why bother saying “plus on road costs” because I would hazard to guess that most people that buy a new car in NZ intend to use it on the road.

The NZHerald (shabby little tabloid) came up with a headline stating the Model 3 was $20000 more here than in America. But conveniently forgot to apply state and federal taxes but included the rebate (and potential savings!), while adding gst to the NZ model. Take GST off the NZ model and it is approx $65250 compared to $61200 ($US40K) for the equivalent US model. $4000 to ship it here seems well within the bounds of reasonable.




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Circumspice
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  # 2250286 3-Jun-2019 12:57
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$1060 = $185 registration + $875 delivery

 

Not clear if the delivery cost is the same for Wanaka as for Auckland, though...


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  # 2250287 3-Jun-2019 12:59
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paulchinnz:

 

$1060 = $185 registration + $875 delivery

 

Not clear if the delivery cost is the same for Wanaka as for Auckland, though...

 

 

Assuming Auckland is the delivery port, be cheaper to fly up and enjoy a road trip home


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  # 2250350 3-Jun-2019 13:50
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Handle9:

 

They don't make money and have negative cash flows. They also had a massive shortfall in deliveries in Q1 after making money in Q4. That's clearly not sustainable.

 

Musk claimed they would be profitable in Q1 and then they announce a huge loss.

 

Tesla is an interesting company but they haven't yet got a self sustaining model. They also have to pay the debt for the Chinese factory in 2020 so they have a very short time to make it profitable. They haven't shown any ability to manage their costs in line with their financial planning.

 

It doesn't mean they can't have a successful business but it doesn't mean they will either.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/24/18514427/tesla-q1-2019-loss-model-3-elon-musk-earnings

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/teslas-financial-problems-return-2019-2019-3

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/18629166/elon-musk-tesla-money-changes-cfo-employee-expenses

 

 

But should the above articles frighten off people from buying a Tesla?

 

What would happen to deposits paid by Tesla buyers if the company went into liquidation?

 

Even if Tesla did go under, how serious would this be to Tesla owners?

 

Isn't it likely that another major car company would takeover Tesla if the company went into liquidation? In other words, what's the point in continually promoting all these negative articles about Tesla's precarious financial position?


 
 
 
 


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  # 2250384 3-Jun-2019 14:54
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Thought I'd see what my insurance would be.  If I were to buy the Performance model, AMI would insure it for an annual premium of $1,352.93 and an excess of $650.  Tried to get the no claims bonus, no excess on glass replacement but due to the all glass roof they wouldn't do that.  Not too bad really, considering my 2007 Nissan Skyline was only $40 cheaper.


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  # 2250433 3-Jun-2019 15:16
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Batman:

 

 

 

 

 

No one is going to take the video seriously when the b-roll used isn't even of a model 3. 


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  # 2250484 3-Jun-2019 16:14
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Obraik:

 

Elon & Tesla has mentioned that the Model 3 is more of a competitor to the BMW 3 Series and it is priced about the same. Interestingly, when the Model 3 production started ramping up in the US it started outselling the Corolla

 

 

A competitor to the 3 Series? Come take a drive of my 3 series and let me know if you think they are on the same plane of existence? Build quality alone is grim. 

 

It's one of the reasons I haven't got an electric car now, because to find something that drives, rides, performs and has the capacity of my 3 series touring, You'd be looking at around 150-200K as a starting point. 

 

 


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  # 2250540 3-Jun-2019 16:56
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networkn:

 

Obraik:

 

Elon & Tesla has mentioned that the Model 3 is more of a competitor to the BMW 3 Series and it is priced about the same. Interestingly, when the Model 3 production started ramping up in the US it started outselling the Corolla

 

 

A competitor to the 3 Series? Come take a drive of my 3 series and let me know if you think they are on the same plane of existence? Build quality alone is grim. 

 

It's one of the reasons I haven't got an electric car now, because to find something that drives, rides, performs and has the capacity of my 3 series touring, You'd be looking at around 150-200K as a starting point. 

 

 

 

 

The Model 3 out performs the 3 Series by a lot and has the same, if not more features than it does. Comparing the Model 3 to the sedan version of the 3 series, the capacity is about the same too.


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  # 2250549 3-Jun-2019 17:15
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This is just the new Android vs iPhone, or Mac vs PC, or for those old enough Atari ST vs Amiga argument. Regardless of the argument from one side, the other will ignore it and focus on something their side is better at.

 

If a $100k electric car does it for you, then buy it and enjoy it - but please don't pretend it is better than a traditional petrol powered car for some other people.

 

Personally I LOVE technology. I have built a pretty complex data logging system for my racecar, including digital dash, CANBUS integration, wireless 16 channel tyre temp sensors, GPS, lap timer, analog inputs for b rake and some other things, accelerometer etc. 

 

I would also LOVE to have solar power - the idea of being able to make my own power and all the pretty graphs does it for me - but no matter how I slice it I can't make it make sense here in Chch.

 

I would also like an electric car - but again, no matter how I do the maths and the emotive bargaining with myself, I cannot make any electric car bubble to the top of a list. I could afford a model 3 if I reallllly wanted, but if I had $100k to spend on a car, there are MUCH better cars for me to spend it on. If I wanted a Model X, I could get a near new AMG E63S or a low km Ferrari F430 or California for the same money.

 

Once day I will get an EV, but I guarantee you, while there are choices like the above, it's not going to happen.

 

Please understand I know there are people out there that WOULD choose a Model X for example over a Ferrari F430 and that's ok. However let's check back in 5 years as well and see whose depreciation is more upsetting :-)

 

Cheers - N

 

 





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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  # 2250597 3-Jun-2019 17:25
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frednz:

 

 

 

But should the above articles frighten off people from buying a Tesla?

 

What would happen to deposits paid by Tesla buyers if the company went into liquidation?

 

Even if Tesla did go under, how serious would this be to Tesla owners?

 

Isn't it likely that another major car company would takeover Tesla if the company went into liquidation? In other words, what's the point in continually promoting all these negative articles about Tesla's precarious financial position?

 

 

 

 

Sorry I didn't realise that we were only allowed to say positive things about Tesla. 

 

Should their financial situation put you off buying one? Maybe, it depends on your risk appetite. Should someone purchasing a very expensive car be informed? Definitely.


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  # 2250598 3-Jun-2019 17:26
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Talkiet:

 

This is just the new Android vs iPhone, or Mac vs PC, or for those old enough Atari ST vs Amiga argument. Regardless of the argument from one side, the other will ignore it and focus on something their side is better at.

 

If a $100k electric car does it for you, then buy it and enjoy it - but please don't pretend it is better than a traditional petrol powered car for some other people.

 

Personally I LOVE technology. I have built a pretty complex data logging system for my racecar, including digital dash, CANBUS integration, wireless 16 channel tyre temp sensors, GPS, lap timer, analog inputs for b rake and some other things, accelerometer etc. 

 

I would also LOVE to have solar power - the idea of being able to make my own power and all the pretty graphs does it for me - but no matter how I slice it I can't make it make sense here in Chch.

 

I would also like an electric car - but again, no matter how I do the maths and the emotive bargaining with myself, I cannot make any electric car bubble to the top of a list. I could afford a model 3 if I reallllly wanted, but if I had $100k to spend on a car, there are MUCH better cars for me to spend it on. If I wanted a Model X, I could get a near new AMG E63S or a low km Ferrari F430 or California for the same money.

 

Once day I will get an EV, but I guarantee you, while there are choices like the above, it's not going to happen.

 

Please understand I know there are people out there that WOULD choose a Model X for example over a Ferrari F430 and that's ok. However let's check back in 5 years as well and see whose depreciation is more upsetting :-)

 

Cheers - N

 

 

 

 

$74k electric car ;)

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that there isn't certain scenarios where a EV isn't going to make sense...but this is a thread about the Model 3 and as such, one should expect that conversations in it are going to be around the benefits of that car.  You're also comparing cars in different categories.  Most people looking at buying a Model X is doing so for its SUV/people mover qualities, which an AMG E63S isn't going to cater to and a Ferrari certainly isn't going to. Depreciation of a "car for the masses" vs a sports car is also not a fair comparison.


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  # 2250599 3-Jun-2019 17:29
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Obraik:

 

$74k electric car ;)

 

 

Oooh yuck, only for the basic pleb model :-)

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that there isn't certain scenarios where a EV isn't going to make sense...but this is a thread about the Model 3 and as such, one should expect that conversations in it are going to be around the benefits of that car.  You're also comparing cars in different categories.  Most people looking at buying a Model X is doing so for its SUV/people mover qualities, which an AMG E63S isn't going to cater to and a Ferrari certainly isn't going to. Depreciation of a "car for the masses" vs a sports car is also not a fair comparison.

 

 

You're right there, I should have used an AMG ML63S as a comparison :-)

 

N

 

 





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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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