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  # 2252902 6-Jun-2019 12:06
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tdgeek:

 

Technofreak:

 

 

 

Reducing speed is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff approach where you reduce the height of the cliff to reduce injury. There needs to be a reduction in the number of people falling off the cliff. Driver training, testing and education will do this.

 

 

Agree but it will never happen. We dont want to pay an extra tax to fund AKL transport, so if everyone was forced to go to and pay for driving education every other year, they will revolt. You could restrict cars to 110kph but drivers will revolt. Like climate change, most people, want to make roads safer as long as it doesn't affect them

 

 

There are ways of incentivising people to undertake driver training/education. Things like reduced vehicle premiums or reduced registration fees. It's done in the private aircraft insurance area in some parts of the world where participation in approved training programmes reduces the insurance premium, and it works.

 

I see the biggest input into driver education being when a person gets their licence. I consider the current programme doesn't have enough focus on open road driving skills. For example, how many people on here can tell me how to tell which direction a bend in the road goes by looking at the marker posts ahead?

 

Another example. When driving on rural roads how many people recognise fresh tractor wheel marks from the mud on the road and as a result realise there is probably a tractor not too far in front and that slowing down might be a good idea. None of this is rocket science but until you're made aware of it you don't know. Right now i don't believe there is sufficient focus on these finer points.

 

Nor is there any focus on how to handle a vehicle if it starts to slide.

 

Completion of a Defensive Driving Course or similar should be compulsory also.

 

 





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Hmm, what to write...
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  # 2252903 6-Jun-2019 12:07
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tdgeek:

 

If we all followed the rules we know exist, deaths would just be slipups. But we place more emphasis on saving 2 minutes

 

Run a red light  $80 fine. next time $500  next time $5000. payment in 7 days no excuses, will take car, TV and  the sofa if it comes to that

 

 

 

That will get the attention, safety isn't important, money is though

 

 

 

 

Humans don't work that way. We are not machines, we follow the rules only when our internal risk matrix says the risk is too high not to.

 

In general we want our freedom, and we feel that we should be free to do as we please unless there is a good reason not to. The reason maybe risk of death, risk of prosecution, risk of public humiliation or any number of things. But in the end, people break rules, the more draconian and less people agree with the rule, the more likely they will break it

 

To quote  Douglas Bader, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools"





Matthew


 
 
 
 


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  # 2252905 6-Jun-2019 12:08
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Technofreak:

 

This from our "esteemed" Associate Minister of Transport.

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391361/huge-majority-of-nzers-would-prefer-lower-speeds-on-some-roads-genter

 

 

The headline appears to misrepresent what Genter said. It says "huge majority" but the quote in the article says "a huge percentage".

 

 

Ms Genter told Morning Report today there was an assumption that New Zealanders did not want the speed limit to drop, but research showed "a huge percentage of the community are much more comfortable travelling at the safe and appropriate speed".

 

 

A "huge percentage" normally implies a majority because huge = very large which wouldn't be the case if there was a greater percentage against.  So it looks like a copywriter didn't understand the difference. But there could be other explanations, for example, if the survey(s) had a significant percentage who didn't know or didn't answer/care.


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  # 2252915 6-Jun-2019 12:25
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Reading just the first page of this thread, I note the usual predictable responses from the 'my car my rules' entitlement brigade. Of course any attempt to limit the speed one chooses to drive is a left-wing conspiracy to deprive them of their god-given right to be stupid and selfish.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 2252917 6-Jun-2019 12:32
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mdooher:

 

tdgeek:

 

If we all followed the rules we know exist, deaths would just be slipups. But we place more emphasis on saving 2 minutes

 

Run a red light  $80 fine. next time $500  next time $5000. payment in 7 days no excuses, will take car, TV and  the sofa if it comes to that

 

 

 

That will get the attention, safety isn't important, money is though

 

 

 

 

Humans don't work that way. We are not machines, we follow the rules only when our internal risk matrix says the risk is too high not to.

 

In general we want our freedom, and we feel that we should be free to do as we please unless there is a good reason not to. The reason maybe risk of death, risk of prosecution, risk of public humiliation or any number of things. But in the end, people break rules, the more draconian and less people agree with the rule, the more likely they will break it

 

To quote  Douglas Bader, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools"

 

 

"we follow the rules only when our internal risk matrix says the risk is too high not to."

 

Exactly my point


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  # 2252958 6-Jun-2019 12:37
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mdooher:


To quote  Douglas Bader, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools"



You do realise I guess, that Douglas Bader lost both his legs, and very nearly his life, while carrying out a flying manoeuvre forbidden in his Station Standing Orders.......




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Hmm, what to write...
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  # 2252963 6-Jun-2019 12:42
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Dingbatt:
mdooher:

 

 

 

To quote  Douglas Bader, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools"

 



You do realise I guess, that Douglas Bader lost both his legs, and very nearly his life, while carrying out a flying manoeuvre forbidden in his Station Standing Orders.......

 

Yep, one of my boyhood heroes 





Matthew


 
 
 
 


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  # 2252966 6-Jun-2019 12:52
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mdooher:

 

 

 

 

 

To quote  Douglas Bader, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools"

 

 

 

 

Right there is way we have such a high road toll. Too many believe the rules are optional, the vehicle is a toy and the road is their personal playground





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 2252968 6-Jun-2019 12:58
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mdooher:

 

Dingbatt:
mdooher:

 

 

 

To quote  Douglas Bader, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools"

 



You do realise I guess, that Douglas Bader lost both his legs, and very nearly his life, while carrying out a flying manoeuvre forbidden in his Station Standing Orders.......

 

Yep, one of my boyhood heroes 

 

 

And an top notch arsehole by all accounts. My mother worked for someone who knew him from his days in the RAF during WWII who didn't speak  very highly of him at all.

 

I read his book "Reach for the Sky" as a kid and thought he was quite OK, but my opinion of him has changed over the years from what I have heard and read about him.





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Hmm, what to write...
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  # 2252987 6-Jun-2019 13:07
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Technofreak:

 

mdooher:

 

Dingbatt:
mdooher:

 

 

 

To quote  Douglas Bader, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools"

 



You do realise I guess, that Douglas Bader lost both his legs, and very nearly his life, while carrying out a flying manoeuvre forbidden in his Station Standing Orders.......

 

Yep, one of my boyhood heroes 

 

 

And an top notch arsehole by all accounts. My mother worked for someone who knew him from his days in the RAF during WWII who didn't speak  very highly of him at all.

 

I read his book "Reach for the Sky" as a kid and thought he was quite OK, but my opinion of him has changed over the years from what I have heard and read about him.

 

 

I cant imagine a rule following nice guy doing very well running a wing of fighter pilots in war time





Matthew


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  # 2252990 6-Jun-2019 13:15
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MikeB4:

 

mdooher:

 

 

 

 

 

To quote  Douglas Bader, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools"

 

 

 

 

Right there is way we have such a high road toll. Too many believe the rules are optional, the vehicle is a toy and the road is their personal playground

 

 

Another quote (I don't remember who from) " Women treat driving as a chore, Men treat driving like a sport" I tend to agree with this one as well. Whenever I am on the road I am always trying to get the perfect line, judge the perfect braking point and actually work on becoming a better driver.





Matthew


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  # 2253019 6-Jun-2019 14:03
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I was taught to drive by my dad. His company had introduced defensive driving courses for all employees and he passed that on to me. Unfortunately, I had to do some growing up before the lessons stuck, but at least I had the basis. 

 

Defensive driving is not finding perfect lines or braking points and pretending to be a rally driver. It is constantly anticipating what can go wrong and mentally preparing to cope with that. It is slowing down and being prepared to brake hard when you see children playing on the side of the street and can't be sure if one may appear from behind a parked car. It is assuming that a car is going to come at you in your own lane around a blind corner. It is always expecting the unexpected and being ready to react in the best way possible. 

 

If our roads are poorly engineered, then people should just slow down. They should be smart enough to figure that out for themselves, but if they aren't, then by all means introduce new speed limits. People will always make mistakes, even those who actually are good drivers and don't merely think they are. Slowing down will reduce the consequences of those. Cars will also develop faults and sometimes may be the cause of accidents. Slowing down also makes that more manageable. 

 

In the years I have been driving here I haven't actually seen any accidents caused by bad roads, though I have certainly seen some bad roads. I haven't seen any accidents caused by defective cars. What I have seen is a lot of examples of very bad driving caused by incompetence, impatience, and just poor attitude.

 

People will always make mistakes. Roads will sometimes be less than ideal. Vehicles can be unsafe. But these things only account for a proportion of road fatalities. The real killer is attitude.  

 

Driving is neither a chore nor a sport. It is a huge responsibility in which you are given a deadly weapon and power over the life and death of other people. It is something that should be taken very seriously. And for some drivers, that requires a change of attitude.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 2253020 6-Jun-2019 14:03
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mdooher:

 

Another quote (I don't remember who from) " Women treat driving as a chore, Men treat driving like a sport" I tend to agree with this one as well. Whenever I am on the road I am always trying to get the perfect line, judge the perfect braking point and actually work on becoming a better driver.

 

 

I am/was the same. I took driving very seriously and that is why I chose to complete two advanced driver training courses. It is also why I recently made the decision to stop driving and sold my car. My disability and treatment had reached a point that I believed I could not drive as safely as I would like. My doctors thought differently and said I could/should continue but I guess I an a bit stubborn. Thankfully my wife is an excellent driver with a clean record.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 2253022 6-Jun-2019 14:06
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mdooher:

 

Yep, one of my boyhood heroes 

 

 

 

And an top notch arsehole by all accounts. My mother worked for someone who knew him from his days in the RAF during WWII who didn't speak  very highly of him at all.

 

I read his book "Reach for the Sky" as a kid and thought he was quite OK, but my opinion of him has changed over the years from what I have heard and read about him.

 

 

 

I cant imagine a rule following nice guy doing very well running a wing of fighter pilots in war time

 

 

Getting a bit off track here. You don't need to be a arsehole to be a good leader. I think you'll find he wasn't well regarded by some of his equals. If you read other books about the aerial warfare during the Battle of Britain and other parts of the war you will see Douglas Bader was a headstrong, undisciplined person.

 

Mind you he wasn't on his own, he had some good company and between them they impeded the Allied progress. 





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  # 2253039 6-Jun-2019 14:24
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tdgeek:

 

You cant drive slower as you will hold up traffic and get a ticket.

 

 

Only if you drive inconsiderately enough to actually hold up other traffic.

 

 


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