Navy buys a crane - carried by a ship

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#2254652 8-Jun-2019 22:43

yep

https://subseaworldnews.com/2019/01/18/royal-new-zealand-navy-gets-cougar-rov-onboard-edda-fonn/

you can see modifications to the ROV hander door here, plus a list of a few more things done during refit:

https://www.orskov.dk/conversion-of-edda-fonn-from-research-vessel-to-diving-support-vessel/

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amiga500

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#2254672 9-Jun-2019 07:57

Maybe the real question is whether a cash strapped navy actually needs this vessel and the tasks which it can carry out. I can see the need for police divers but struggle to see why we need to do some of the tasks this ship is now capable of.

For example would it be better to spend the money on beefing up the weaponry on the ANZAC frigates for anti-piracy missions & the like? Even after the upgrades these frigates are getting they seem lightly armed especially at the stern. A few more rapid firing light cannons and heavy machine guns at both the bow and stern wouldn't be a bad idea when these frigates are being used to deter low tech but heavily armed pirates and terrorists.

Jase2985

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#2254678 9-Jun-2019 08:33

@amiga500:

Maybe the real question is whether a cash strapped navy actually needs this vessel and the tasks which it can carry out. I can see the need for police divers but struggle to see why we need to do some of the tasks this ship is now capable of.

For example would it be better to spend the money on beefing up the weaponry on the ANZAC frigates for anti-piracy missions & the like? Even after the upgrades these frigates are getting they seem lightly armed especially at the stern. A few more rapid firing light cannons and heavy machine guns at both the bow and stern wouldn't be a bad idea when these frigates are being used to deter low tech but heavily armed pirates and terrorists.

given you are an armchair defense analysis where are the ANZAC's at present?

what weaponry do they currently have onboard?

the navy isnt cash strapped so not sure where you got that from.

you still haven't told us what Manawanuis role is in your eyes

amiga500

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#2254686 9-Jun-2019 09:17

given you are an armchair defense analysis where are the ANZAC's at present?

No idea, btw the word is analyst not analysis.

what weaponry do they currently have onboard?

I refer you to wikipedia. However, almost every day I see the weaponry being used in civil wars and the heavy machine guns and light cannons being used on Toyota pick-up trucks looks just what might be very handy on the frigates when dealing with pirates.

the navy isnt cash strapped so not sure where you got that from.

I thought the navy had to buy a used vessel because the frigate upgrade had gone over the budget?

you still haven't told us what Manawanuis role is in your eyes

Yes.

Jase2985

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#2254689 9-Jun-2019 09:28

amiga500:

No idea, btw the word is analyst not analysis.

thats the most accurate thing you have said in this entire thread

Torque

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#2254700 9-Jun-2019 10:05

I have to be careful with this thread otherwise I'll get myself into trouble.

MAN's crane is just one part of the vessel, I personally (+ professionally) find the enhancements/improvements MAN brings in terms of MCM, and dive capability more interesting than a crane. (Even the DP is more interesting).

I haven't thought much about HADR capabilities as CAN does this well. MAN could possibly do a couple of containers on the aft deck to assist in places CAN can't get to (again DP would be handy here).

amiga500:
For example would it be better to spend the money on beefing up the weaponry on the ANZAC frigates for anti-piracy missions & the like? Even after the upgrades these frigates are getting they seem lightly armed especially at the stern. A few more rapid firing light cannons and heavy machine guns at both the bow and stern wouldn't be a bad idea when these frigates are being used to deter low tech but heavily armed pirates and terrorists.

For someone who claims to be a 'defence analyst' you have remarkably no clue about what you are talking about.

amiga500

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#2254767 9-Jun-2019 11:59

Torque: For someone who claims to be a 'defence analyst' you have remarkably no clue about what you are talking about.

Well, when I see the participants in almost every civil war able to mount these heavy machine guns and cannons on the back of Toyota trucks I think that the navy engineers could rig up something pretty damned good at the bow and stern of an ANZAC frigate. Heck, even the old carrier HMS Ocean had weapons to deal with attacks by people in little fast moving boats. And, yes I saw this on a documentary - it is not a figment of my imagination.

Why not add some weapons like this? For some of the roles carried out by the frigates high tech is not always needed. Surely this is why the USA used helicopter gunships in Vietnam. And if Muldoon had sent one or two helicopters with heavy machine guns pointing out the doors, they would have stopped the trawler just as well as the Skyhawk with its cannons!

Jase2985

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#2254777 9-Jun-2019 12:14

everything you have posted is already there on the frigates, and more. its actually there on all the RNZN ships, so do some research, and by research i dont mean wikipedia, thats mostly correct but is missing bits, do some actual research.

Bung

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#2254778 9-Jun-2019 12:15

Do you know that the frigates don't have close range weaponry?

The Te Kaha info describes a range including .50 cal machine guns, mini-Typhoon remote controlled stabilised mounted machine guns down to 9mm pistols. It stops there with no mention of cutlasses.

Torque

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#2254812 9-Jun-2019 14:07

The previous two posters have covered off on your question; I would suggest having a read of the available materiel on the internet (not just Wikipedia, Janes Fighting Ships perhaps, Navy Today, RNZN website) to further increase your knowledge.

amiga500

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#2254833 9-Jun-2019 15:16

Jase2985:

everything you have posted is already there on the frigates, and more. its actually there on all the RNZN ships, so do some research, and by research i dont mean wikipedia, thats mostly correct but is missing bits, do some actual research.

According to the articles I have read the NZ ANZACs were initially equipped with 2 x 12.7-millimetre (0.50 in) machine guns & this was supposed to take care of close in threats.

amiga500

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#2254859 9-Jun-2019 15:35

Torque: The previous two posters have covered off on your question; I would suggest having a read of the available materiel on the internet (not just Wikipedia, Janes Fighting Ships perhaps, Navy Today, RNZN website) to further increase your knowledge.

From what I have read it seems that on delivery the NZ ANZACs only had 2 x 12.7-millimetre (0.50 in) machine guns for close in defence. They may well have or be in the process of getting more capabilities, but I am thinking of the anti piracy role.

If pirates in small fast boats saw a ship with one big gun plus highly visible light cannons/heavy machine guns it would deter them from attacking. Plus it would protect the ship when engaged in these operations. It is all very well to have systems to deal with in-coming missiles but in the anti-piracy role the danger may come from heavy machine guns & grenade launchers & rifles of various types. In this scenario any ship with radar and plenty of guns would be just as effective as a state of the art frigate.

These guys who do piracy probably don't give a toss about anti missile systems but they sure know what a big machine gun on a Toyota looks like! And that is what they need to see on our warships.

amiga500

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#2254867 9-Jun-2019 15:45

People take things too literally. It was a joke calling myself a self appointed 'defence analyst'. However, if I got a really big bookcase filled with impressive looking books, I might get a gig as a defence commentator on Aljazeera. (I've noted that their credibility is in inverse proportion to the size of the bookcase & number of books.)