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474 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2256881 12-Jun-2019 16:08
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Yeah, for sure but they do have a few prototypes that they have floating around that people spot towing various loads. In the USA, UPS has already ordered 125 of them with a number of other high profile names having their own orders too.


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Uber Geek

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  # 2256896 12-Jun-2019 16:51
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Wonder how you would get on with Hydrogen powered locomotives? You could carry a couple of tank cars behind it with Hydrogen in them for range.




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Old3eyes


 
 
 
 




1227 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2256897 12-Jun-2019 17:21
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12239721&ref=rss

 

From the above:

 

Hyundai has unveiled New Zealand's first zero emissions, hydrogen-powered SUV at Fieldays but it could be some months before it hits this country's roads while an infrastructure is built to support the technology.

 

Hyundai NZ spokesman Gavin Young said the company was working with the 29 other members of the New Zealand Hydrogen Association to provide the infrastructure, and expected the fuel cell system-driven vehicles would be available well within two years.

 

The price of the vehicle "which feels like an electric car to drive" is unknown at this stage.

 

The first Nexos will be released in Auckland, followed by Taranaki. Hyundai was working with the Ports of Auckland on refuelling solutions, Young said.

 

It's interesting that Hyundai hasn't yet officially released the NZ price of the Nexo and that it will be available "well within two years". The Nexo is already on the road in Norway, USA, Korea, Germany and the UK. The article says that the Nexo is capable of a range of 605km and that refuelling takes "some 5 minutes". 

 

The Nexo certainly seems to be a worthy competitor to the 64 kWh Hyundai Kona EV, which has a range of about 455km and takes more than an hour to charge up on a fast charger.


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  # 2256899 12-Jun-2019 17:38
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frankv:

 

Wondering why they use hydrogen as a fuel, instead of some more commonly available fuel? IIRC, fuel cells can run on alcohol, for example.

 

 

The emissions from hydrogen fuel cells are water and warm air. In that sense, they could be argued to be better than fossil fuels, which emit carbon and other things.

But water vapour is, itself, a powerful greenhouse factor.....and a billion fuel cell vehicles could end up making little difference to the amount of heat trapped in the atmosphere.

EVs emit nothing.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars need hydrogen - which would ideally be created by electricity, preferably solar energy. Then you have to move the car. They end up about 45% energy efficient whereas a EV is 90% energy efficient. So you're need twice as much electricity - at least - to power a fuel cell fleet vs a EV fleet.

Another issue is the catalyst in the fuel cells. It's platinum.....one of the most expensive metals around.

Fuel cells may be ideal for remote locations......but no one is going to put a $2 million fuel cell refueling station out in those remote areas. Any farmer would be better to install solar and wind generation and keep their electric vehicles powered that way (as well as the grid). 4 x 250w panels would generate about 6kWh-10kWh of power each day......and that's about 40-70km of driving. A wind turbine can operate 24/7 and generate upward of 20kWh / day. Ideal in the Manawatu, parts of the Waikato and Otago.....where the wind blows a lot.  

 

Any farm should have 20 x 250w solar panels at least....and be able to generate 5kWh every hour....at peak. That would be about 40kWh a / day.....and that's about 280km. If you only use the vehicle on the farm......then that's heaps....with the occasional run into town...usually no more than 50km away.

That power can be used for anything else on the farm, too, of course.





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172 posts

Master Geek


  # 2256942 12-Jun-2019 18:04
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frednz:

 

It's interesting that Hyundai hasn't yet officially released the NZ price of the Nexo and that it will be available "well within two years".

 

 

Perhaps not official, but they mentioned $90,000 on the TV segment last night.


474 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2256945 12-Jun-2019 18:18
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But, we don't even have a hydrogen fuel station in NZ yet to power the Hyundai...



1227 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2256966 12-Jun-2019 19:06
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Obraik: But, we don't even have a hydrogen fuel station in NZ yet to power the Hyundai...

 

This was posted on FB today:

 

Thought this response from Hyundai might interest most so posting it here instead if Hyundai groups, answers on Hyundai nexo hydrogen vehicle.

 

Hi David,

 

At this stage we are working with partners to develop refueling infrastructure in New Zealand.
Until refueling infrastructure is in place we are not in a position to sell the NEXO. We won’t know the cost of refuelling the NEXO until there is a viable refuelling option. However, based on the USA costs. The most common price is USD13,99 / kg so that approx. USD88 to fill the NEXO for 600km+ range. In order to fuel our two NEXO demonstrators, we are currently in the process of installing our own refuelling station in Mt Wellington not far from our office.

 

 

I hope this helps

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

It's interesting that it costs $US88 to fill the NEXO to cover 600km+. Now that's a lot more than I would have expected!


 
 
 
 


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  # 2256969 12-Jun-2019 19:10
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Obraik:

 

Most people do have the ability to charge their EV at home though.  Most people also drive their car to work each day or to a supermarket a few times a week so these are other extended stop opportunities for charging.  Most EV owners do not visit a public charging station and only do so on a road trip so charge times are generally only a factor during these extended road trips.

 

If we don't have enough electricity generation capability for EVs then we certainly don't have enough for Hydrogen electrolysis 

 

 

I go to work (Ok I lied I work from home, but if I went to work, there is no charger.) I go to New World each Sunday, no charger. If there was is to worth it for 30 minutes?

 

If I travel I can stop at BP, get gas, gone. If I stop at BP is there a charger? is there a wait? 

 

Im not anti EV, but lets be realistic.


474 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2256972 12-Jun-2019 19:15
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There might not be chargers there now but they're ideal places for chargers - many New Worlds have already started adding fast chargers, as has The Warehouse.  In Norway where EV uptake is huge a lot of carparks are full of EV chargers.  As our EV uptake increases the same will likely start to happen here. 




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Uber Geek


  # 2256977 12-Jun-2019 19:24
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CitizenErased:

 

frednz:

 

It's interesting that Hyundai hasn't yet officially released the NZ price of the Nexo and that it will be available "well within two years".

 

 

Perhaps not official, but they mentioned $90,000 on the TV segment last night.

 

 

Yes a figure of $91,000 was mentioned by Jeremy Wells on Seven Sharp, but not by any Hyundai people. Now has Jeremy put his foot in it over this?

 

I'm beginning to wonder whether all this NEXO (FCEV) promotional material is really doing more to convince people that battery EVs are a better way to go than hydrogen powered vehicles!


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  # 2256980 12-Jun-2019 19:36
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Obraik:

 

There might not be chargers there now but they're ideal places for chargers - many New Worlds have already started adding fast chargers, as has The Warehouse.  In Norway where EV uptake is huge a lot of carparks are full of EV chargers.  As our EV uptake increases the same will likely start to happen here. 

 

 

I am VERY pro EV. We have the ideal use case. But its a no go. The H debate here seems more to be a I want EV I hate H lets bag H.

 

I want EV, I can pay cash for EV but its not worth it, thats the issue.

 

The issue SHOULD be about what's best for the environment. 


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  # 2256981 12-Jun-2019 19:37
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frednz:

 

 

 

I'm beginning to wonder whether all this NEXO (FCEV) promotional material is really doing more to convince people that battery EVs are a better way to go than hydrogen powered vehicles!

 

 

They probably are, but they are also not worth it. And this is from someone who wants an EV


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Uber Geek

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  # 2256982 12-Jun-2019 19:37
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$US88 ($NZ132) for 600 kms! My current car costs about that to fill and can do just under 1200km on a tank. And of that $NZ132 about 40 bucks is government fuel excise.
So by the time a fuel cell vehicle pays RUCs that is a pretty expensive per km rate to scratch a green itch. BEVs and even PHEVs make better sense.
My biggest concern would be buying an 'orphan' technology that isn't properly supported and as a consequence has no resale value. Especially if you are talking nearly $100000. At least CNG and LPG vehicles last century could be converted back to petrol.




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474 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2256984 12-Jun-2019 19:39
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Dingbatt: $US88 ($NZ132) for 600 kms! My current car costs about that to fill and can do just under 1200km on a tank. And of that $NZ132 about 40 bucks is government fuel excise.
So by the time a fuel cell vehicle pays RUCs that is a pretty expensive per km rate to scratch a green itch. BEVs and even PHEVs make better sense.
My biggest concern would be buying an 'orphan' technology that isn't properly supported and as a consequence has no resale value. Especially if you are talking nearly $100000. At least CNG and LPG vehicles last century could be converted back to petrol.

 

Yeah, this isn't the VHS vs Beta war that you want to be on the wrong side of


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  # 2256985 12-Jun-2019 19:43
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Dingbatt: $US88 ($NZ132) for 600 kms! My current car costs about that to fill and can do just under 1200km on a tank. And of that $NZ132 about 40 bucks is government fuel excise.
So by the time a fuel cell vehicle pays RUCs that is a pretty expensive per km rate to scratch a green itch. BEVs and even PHEVs make better sense.
My biggest concern would be buying an 'orphan' technology that isn't properly supported and as a consequence has no resale value. Especially if you are talking nearly $100000. At least CNG and LPG vehicles last century could be converted back to petrol.

 

US$88 gets 1200km?  Is it a 34cc uni cycle ?


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