Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




Mad Scientist
21326 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

# 261669 9-Dec-2019 23:38
Send private message quote this post

I started a thread about getting a dinghy to row around a small lake, and am unable to get one that is cheap and would fit more than 1-2 persons. I see a few outboard "boats" (boat + trailer) on facebook that look really good for 3-8k that would seat 5. But I understand that it comes with maintenance ....

 

One of the things that the posts keep saying is automatic transmission, manual transmission. I didn't even know there was transmission to be serviced! Thought the outboard is single speed.

 

Is there a boat that only has a rudder and a motor and therefore doesn't need much servicing?

 

Or all I need to do is remove the motor and bring it to the shop instead of having to tow the thing to the shop every 50 hrs use?! (Since boat is by a lake I don't plan to keep the WOF/Rego on the trailer)

 

Sorry I'm not even sure where to start asking the questions.

 

 





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer Create new topic
956 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Chorus

  # 2371441 10-Dec-2019 01:02
9 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

"Sure, low maintenance boats exist - those are the ones that never gets used" - famous quote by me, 10 December 2020 😅

 

I have a dinghy. It's a Raeline 3.2 metre fibreglass job with a 9.9hp Mariner outboard which cost me $2400 on a reg'd and wof'd galvanised road trailer. Goes fine with just me in it but add another person and all of a sudden it won't get up 'on the plane'. That's fine if we are fishing close to our launch location but not much good if we want to go further afield. My friend has a slightly longer aluminium dinghy with an 18hp Tohatsu outboard. His goes much faster (and gets up on the plane) even with 2 people in it, but he paid more for it.

 

I'm also a 50% owner of an 18.5 foot Bayliner Capri ski boat with a 4.3litre V6 210hp Mercruiser sternleg. I've co-owned it for 10 years which has been great because whenever it's needed money spent on it, I've only ever had to come up with half the cash lol. I own it with my best friend of 40 years and we do everything together anyway, so owning a boat together has been no hassle, but it's not a solution for everyone I guess. The last thing you want is to share a boat with someone who hogs the use of it or worse, continually damages it.

 

But I digress. I've had plenty of boats in my time and it all comes down to what you want versus what you need versus what you can afford (both upfront and in terms of upkeep). From what I read into your post above, you may have originally wanted a dinghy, but you also want to carry up to 5 people - which automatically cancels out most dinghy sized boats.

 

That places you firmly in the small runabout category. First up, for someone starting out I'd recommend something like an old Fi-Glass Fireball. They are on the smaller end but as the original design is quite old they are generally cheap(ish) to get into. The thing is they come with a variety of engine options. The really cheap ones might still have the original motor from 40 years ago - I'd probably stay away from those. Ideally you want one with a newer motor - at least late 80's - which in my opinion strikes a good balance between price and reliability. Here is an example of a cheap one, but that motor is positively prehistoric so not something I'd go for. Personally when I was starting out with my first powerboat, I looked for a tired hull that I could do some basic tidying up on, but with the newest motor I could afford.

 

Transmissions? Well yes even small outboards have gearboxes - they all generally have forward and reverse gears and a lever to switch between the two. I've never heard of an automatic though....

 

For the record, 50 hours of motor running between servicing represents a lot of time for the average person. We use the Bayliner all the time over summer (we have a bach by a large lake), but a lot of "use" is when it's parked up on the beach. I'd be very surprised if between both owners we even managed to clock up 50 hours of engine running over an entire year. 

 

And yes, whilst a dinghy motor of 10-20hp can be removed from the boat and carried into the service centre, anything bigger than that is usually permanently attached to your boat so you have to take the whole rig in for servicing. Even if you could remove them, they weigh a tonne so why would you want to? Just tow the whole rig in for servicing. 

 

Boat trailers are exempt from continuous registration, so you can keep the registration on hold indefinitely if you aren't using it on the road. WOF is a bit more tricky - some boaties take the risk of not wof'ing the trailer if they only take it on the road just to get it serviced. But also worth mentioning that you need to service the trailer too. The number 1 cause of boat trailer accidents is due to failed wheel bearings. They get wet everytime you back into the water, and they are usually hot from driving when you do that, which results in water being drawn into the bearings. I recommend bearing buddies which keep your bearings well lubricated and semi dry, but you need to check for bearing wear regularly. It's worth learning how to change bearings yourself to save serious money.

 

And don't forget safety. Lifejackets that fit everyone onboard, a fire extinguisher, 2 forms of communication (cellphone in a ziplock bag and a handheld VHF radio) paddles/oars - even on a power boat, and a Coastguard membership. And always tell someone where you're going and when you'll be back.

 

And for Pete's sake learn the "rules of the road" on water. The number of boaties (and particularly jetskiers) who barrel towards me coming up the wrong side of the river is truly terrifying. For the record, if you are travelling along a river for example, you should be on the right hand side, and people going the other way should pass to your left (ie it's the opposite of the actual road). The Coastguard has online courses you can do if you are a complete novice or have no experienced friends to learn off.

 

If you want to know more please ask. I don't pretend to know it all but I've grown up sailing competitively and worked on the Interislander for years, so I guess I know more than a lot of people, particularly when it comes to safety at sea.




Mad Scientist
21326 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2371469 10-Dec-2019 08:02
Send private message quote this post

thank you, that's an amazing reply, very informative. i'm very grateful!

 

i've sent you a PM about 3 options and was wondering if you could explain the pros and cons of them or even if they were any good.

 

unfortunately the best option i saw is now sold (hindsight is amazing) - it was a buccaneer 4.9m that looks new with cabin, outboard and trailer for 7k





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


 
 
 
 


297 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2371480 10-Dec-2019 08:37
Send private message quote this post

It's worth mentioning that the leg on the outboard needs gear oil checked/replaced, but other important service item is the water pump.

 

Usually drop the leg, check inlet screen, remove the pump housing, check bearing, nylon impeller is replaceable service item.

 

Always check water circulation when starting and running an outboard, usually a small tell-tale water outlet just below the power head.

 

If it's not getting water, you will overheat the motor. 





:)




Mad Scientist
21326 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2371487 10-Dec-2019 09:01
Send private message quote this post

kotuku4:

 

It's worth mentioning that the leg on the outboard needs gear oil checked/replaced, but other important service item is the water pump.

 

Usually drop the leg, check inlet screen, remove the pump housing, check bearing, nylon impeller is replaceable service item.

 

Always check water circulation when starting and running an outboard, usually a small tell-tale water outlet just below the power head.

 

If it's not getting water, you will overheat the motor. 

 

 

thanks. looks like i'm learning by the hour





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


gzt

11023 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2371488 10-Dec-2019 09:03
Send private message quote this post

Think about how often you will really use this and consider daily hire and zero maintenance.



Mad Scientist
21326 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2371503 10-Dec-2019 09:37
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

gzt: Think about how often you will really use this and consider daily hire and zero maintenance.

 

ok





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


9011 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2371694 10-Dec-2019 12:39
Send private message quote this post

I replaced the 10hp auxilliary on our trailer yacht a year ago.  That was an '88 model - so getting pretty old.  I'd done all maintenance on it myself.  About 5 years ago, I took the heads off and took the powerhead off the leg, cleaned all the water channels out, checked internal anodes, replaced gaskets etc.  Time consuming and I doubt any service centre would recommend - as they'd end up charging you more than the motor was worth.  Anyway, it was still going fine, I dumped it because it's critical safety-wise that it works when you need it to.  There was pitting corrosion in the alloy water channels on the head, eventually (if the rest of the motor was to last) the holes corrode right through and flood the cylinder with water, when that happens, they just stop with no warning.  New head would have cost more than the motor was worth, and anyway everything was getting near end of reliable life. There are older motors around, I'd not trust any motor more than a few years old - regardless of how well maintained they look or how well serviced the owner claims they were.  IMO people seem to pay far too much for used motors, blindly expecting they got a bargain.  Better to get a new one - and look after it.  Basic DIY maintenance isn't that hard on small motors.

 

 


 
 
 
 




Mad Scientist
21326 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2371947 10-Dec-2019 17:23
Send private message quote this post

let's say i won't do much boating and I'm going for a light hull and a light two stroke outboard max 15hp -

 

would i want 1 cylinder / 2 cylinder?

 

anything i should consider apart from as new as possible?





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


9011 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2371966 10-Dec-2019 18:47
Send private message quote this post

Batman:

 

let's say i won't do much boating and I'm going for a light hull and a light two stroke outboard max 15hp -

 

would i want 1 cylinder / 2 cylinder?

 

anything i should consider apart from as new as possible?

 

 

Probably all 10/15 are 2 cylinder.

 

Personally, though I love 4 stroke torque and fuel economy, I'd go two stroke for weight and simplicity.

 

10 hp, I'd recommend a Tohatsu 9.8, as it's a "hotted up"6hp (rather than a "detuned"15 -like most 10s) and only weight 26kg - you can carry one with one arm.

 

15hp I'd recommend Yamaha, because it's the most popular 15 since as long as I've been boating, and most owners swear by them, and parts etc are not a problem whether via local dealer or ebay or whatever.

 

Chinese brands - nope.  American re-branded Japanese made - yep.  American branded American made - nope from me.

 

Modern reed valve 2 stroke outboards are far more efficient (fuel) than old models, it would be a crying shame if they were banned - as has happened in some countries. I think it might be fair enough on environmental grounds to ban large two strokes - say 30hp or over, but I'll spit tacks if they ban small ones here, and I doubt I'd be alone.


9011 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2371972 10-Dec-2019 19:07
Send private message quote this post

At Awaroa right by the beach we (kiwis) bought a couple of years back (much of which has incidentally disappeared - but that's another story) the locals have a "tinny race" on new years day on the tidal lagoon.  I'm not sure what the exact rules are, but I think it's a standard 10' dinghy hull and a 15hp max outboard.  But you can modify the outboard, there's no actual HP limit, I suspect some enthusiasts spend all year working on them.  FWIW, I don't recall seeing anything but a Yamaha motor. You'd need a radar trap or some other measurement method, I'm only guessing, but maybe 40 knots or probably more - absolutely crazy fast on something so cheap and small.  Might drop in and take a look this year, weather gods permitting.

 

(FWIW, a 15hp 2 stroke is probably about 250 cc.  There's no reason apart from it probably not lasting very long and/or flying to pieces, that with careful mods, you might get 50hp out of them)


gzt

11023 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2372019 10-Dec-2019 21:04
Send private message quote this post

I know zero about outboards. Mowers and bikes tho - 2 stroke always seemed to have more starting problems more clogging and flooding problems, more plug replacement. Oil mixing and mixer adjustment. None of that is really an issue when you know how to deal with it just inconvenience. Single cyl 4 stroke seemed like the most reliable thing ever in comparison.

9011 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2372185 11-Dec-2019 08:55
Send private message quote this post

gzt: I know zero about outboards. Mowers and bikes tho - 2 stroke always seemed to have more starting problems more clogging and flooding problems, more plug replacement. Oil mixing and mixer adjustment. None of that is really an issue when you know how to deal with it just inconvenience. Single cyl 4 stroke seemed like the most reliable thing ever in comparison.

 

Yep, but compared to small mower motors, the outboard motors usually use a leaner 2 stroke oil ratio, typically 50-100:1 - larger ones use 2 stroke oil-injection.  Perhaps both plugs and the oils have improved since my days of 2 stroke motorcycling where I used to have to change plugs all the time.  So long as they're looked after, starting problems from fouling isn't an issue.  With dinghy motors a common starting issue is from contaminated fuel.  The separate tote tanks also have a vent on the cap you have to open or the fuel will stop flowing when the tank has a vacuum.  It's a common "oops" - everybody makes the mistake.  There's always splashing, or someone forgets to close the vent and it rains hard and you end up with water in the fuel, it'll sit away from the pickup hose until you start moving, then suck up some water, the motor dies, then you'll have problems re-starting whether it's 2 or 4 stroke.  With pre-mix 2 stroke, after use before storing the motor it's a good idea to drain the carb float bowl by disconnecting / turning off the fuel and letting it run until it runs out of fuel so that when the fuel evaporates it doesn't leave the 2 stroke oil in the bowl, potentially clogging jets, the float etc, less of an issue with 4 stroke with no oil in the fuel, but even so a good idea to run them out of fuel before storing.

 

The main advantage of 2 stroke is weight.  In the 10hp range, you can get a 2 stroke that weighs 25-30kg, a 10hp 4 stroke typically around 40kg.  It's a big difference if you need to carry it around, they're awkward shaped back-destroying things.  2 stroke are also generally quite a bit less expensive, and less mechanically complex.  You also don't have to worry about keeping them on one side when laying them down for transport, there's no sump oil, so you could transport them upside down - doesn't matter.

 

The main advantages of small 4 stroke are they use less fuel, but 2 strokes of that size don't tend to use much anyway, they're a bit quieter and deliver power at lower rpm, and the exhaust isn't smokey / smelly.  You can also put any left over fuel in your car tank - rather than store it, where pre-mixed 2 stroke supposedly can go off.

 

If weight wasn't an issue then 4 stroke is the way to go.  If weight is an issue, then 2 stroke has advantages.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Vodafone integrates eSIM into device and wearable roadmap
Posted 17-Jan-2020 09:45


Do you need this camera app? Group investigates privacy implications
Posted 16-Jan-2020 03:30


JBL launches headphones range designed for gaming
Posted 13-Jan-2020 09:59


Withings introduces ScanWatch wearable combining ECG and sleep apnea detection
Posted 9-Jan-2020 18:34


NZ Police releases public app
Posted 8-Jan-2020 11:43


Suunto 7 combine sports and smart features on new smartwatch generation
Posted 7-Jan-2020 16:06


Intel brings innovation with technology spanning the cloud, network, edge and PC
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:54


AMD announces high performance desktop and ultrathin laptop processors
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:42


AMD unveils four new desktop and mobile GPUs including AMD Radeon RX 5600
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:32


Consolidation in video streaming market with Spark selling Lightbox to Sky
Posted 19-Dec-2019 09:09


Intel introduces cryogenic control chip to enable quantum computers
Posted 10-Dec-2019 21:32


Vodafone 5G service live in four cities
Posted 10-Dec-2019 08:30


Samsung Galaxy Fold now available in New Zealand
Posted 6-Dec-2019 00:01


NZ company oDocs awarded US$ 100,000 Dubai World Expo grant
Posted 5-Dec-2019 16:00


New Zealand Rugby Selects AWS-Powered Analytics for Deeper Game Insights
Posted 5-Dec-2019 11:33



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.