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  #2405307 23-Jan-2020 15:20
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PolicyGuy:

Geektastic:


Surely this is inevitable? Why would electricity companies not charge for this especially once the vehicle dependency switches from oil?
Most electricity companies operating in a regulated environment are usually only regulated for domestic supply....



From the OP's link: "Ionity, a joint venture between BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Ford and Volkswagen including Audi and Porsche"



  • Ionity is not an electricity company, it's an EV-charger network company

  • They seem to have set a single EU-wide price, which apparently is way out of whack in Norway: it may not be so in other EU countries.

  • As noted above, Ionity is owned by a consortium of vehicle manufacturers whose vastly predominant market at the moment is ICE vehicles: they may not be significantly incentivised to make EVs more sttractive [cough]



They buy the electricity from somebody.....





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  #2405318 23-Jan-2020 15:56
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Geektastic:

They buy the electricity from somebody.....

 

Isn't that exactly what PoliceGuy said? Not sure I am following where you are going with that?


 
 
 
 


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  #2405560 23-Jan-2020 22:26
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jarledb:

 

Geektastic:

They buy the electricity from somebody.....

 

Isn't that exactly what PoliceGuy said? Not sure I am following where you are going with that?

 

 

 

 

Maybe I misunderstood. He appeared to be suggesting it was just big auto makers that were cashing in. I see no reason to assume the benevolence of electricity companies once they hold the key to everyone's car instead of the oil companies.






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  #2405610 24-Jan-2020 00:59
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Geektastic:

 

Maybe I misunderstood. He appeared to be suggesting it was just big auto makers that were cashing in. I see no reason to assume the benevolence of electricity companies once they hold the key to everyone's car instead of the oil companies.

 

 

I doubt the electricity companies would be allowed to price the electricity sold to companies such as Ionity any differently than they would any other commercial purchaser. 

 

What does affect the pricing of electricity in Norway is the other markets where it is sold. Norway exports and imports electricity in a European market, so the prices are affected by prices in that market.


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  #2405652 24-Jan-2020 09:15
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jarledb:

 

Geektastic:

 

Maybe I misunderstood. He appeared to be suggesting it was just big auto makers that were cashing in. I see no reason to assume the benevolence of electricity companies once they hold the key to everyone's car instead of the oil companies.

 

 

I doubt the electricity companies would be allowed to price the electricity sold to companies such as Ionity any differently than they would any other commercial purchaser. 

 

What does affect the pricing of electricity in Norway is the other markets where it is sold. Norway exports and imports electricity in a European market, so the prices are affected by prices in that market.

 

 

 

 

In many markets, significant regulation of price for commercial customers is not as strictly regulated as it is for domestic companies, so there is much more scope to make money on that side of the business.

 

Many discussions on the economics of electric cars are predicated on relatively cheap power prices. No guarantee that will remain so.






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  #2405684 24-Jan-2020 10:36
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Again the VAST majority of EV charging occurs at home, Where domestic regulation applies. One charging network is moving to a high but not crazy pricing structure for users that aren't part of a monthly plan/don't have a car with a manufacture negotiated price.

 

I also think you'll find the EU coming down pretty hard on an electricity provider trying to charge significantly higher than other industrial users who by nature tend to get as good if not better than domestic pricing in return for contract terms and assured purchasing. For example per MwH in Norway in 2017 Domestic users paid a little over $100 eur. For industrial users this was under $60 eur.





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  #2405707 24-Jan-2020 11:16
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I don't think there is any evidence that public EV charging stations are treated any differently to other commercial / industrial users with similar power use profiles.

 

It would be my guess that most of the public slow (AC) chargers, and some of the public fast (DC) chargers are not on a separate connection, instead using the standard commercial/industrial connection of the host (Supermarket, mall, petrol station, port, car yard).

 

The electricity retailers in NZ (including the commercial / industrial space) are quite competitive. If one company decides to make excessive margins when supplying EV charging stations, others with more competive pricing will get the business. If all companies collude and rise prices for one type of consumer only, this will breach our anti-competition laws.

 

The non-competitive area's of the electricity market (lines companies) have their prices regulated by the commerce commission.

Generally power pricing in the industrial / commercial sector is cheaper than in the residential sector.

 

 

 

Bigger issues for the price of fast charging will be the operators trying to get an economic return. Those fast charger's arn't cheap. Also in NZ (as with most countries) large commercial / industrial customer pay "capacity charging" for their connection. Vectors auckland rate is around 4c/kVA/day (a touch less if you take high voltage power, or have an on site transformer). For a 4x350kW fast charger station, this works out (assuming a power factor of 1.0) to $60 per day, just to be connected to power. (Usage charges on top of this).



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