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8 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2434789 9-Mar-2020 07:45
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What's people's interpretation of 4(c)
Subclause 1 says you can't use special vehicle lanes except if ur a bus or emergency vehicle.

4(b) is the 50m rule

4(c) you can drive partially or wholly in the lane unavailable to you as long as you give way to vehicles entitled to use that lane.

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Uber Geek


  #2434796 9-Mar-2020 08:12
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Sabertown: What's people's interpretation of 4(c)

4(c) you can drive partially or wholly in the lane unavailable to you as long as you give way to vehicles entitled to use that lane.

 

Clauses A-C are connected, so the effect of clause C is to clarify that while you can use the lane under limited circumstances, you cannot do so without giving way to vehicles which are entitled to use the lane.

 

In other words, let the bus go first.


 
 
 
 


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  #2434922 9-Mar-2020 11:33
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Sabertown: What's people's interpretation of 4(c)
Subclause 1 says you can't use special vehicle lanes except if ur a bus or emergency vehicle.

4(b) is the 50m rule

4(c) you can drive partially or wholly in the lane unavailable to you as long as you give way to vehicles entitled to use that lane.

 

there's no interpretation needed it's very clear. you can use it if you meet the required criteria. did you read the ANDs the preceed the 4c? If you meet all the ANDs then you are good to go.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #2434930 9-Mar-2020 11:39
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Bottom line is this:

 

IF the bus lanes are indeed designed to keep traffic moving in Auckland, and IF it's not about revenue gathering, then the people who analyse things at NZTA would look at the HUGE discrepancy between the locations and their tickets and realize there is a critical issue on Kyber Pass.

 

The road markings are confusing, the signs aren't easy to read and the problem is, if you make a mistake and end up in the wrong lane, it's impossible to get out of that lane without causing a huge traffic problem of your own.

 

If this wasn't about revenue gathering, they would change things so that fewer people were confused and ending up in the wrong place by accident.

 

 


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  #2435144 9-Mar-2020 16:26
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networkn:

 

Bottom line is this:

 

IF the bus lanes are indeed designed to keep traffic moving in Auckland, and IF it's not about revenue gathering, then the people who analyse things at NZTA would look at the HUGE discrepancy between the locations and their tickets and realize there is a critical issue on Kyber Pass.

 

 

nothing to do with NZTA, its run by AT

 

 


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Ultimate Geek

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  #2437955 14-Mar-2020 14:35
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Having experienced something similar, i have noticed that AT takes a very heavy-handed view of the situation just because they are legally not obliged to display proper signage for bus lanes. Warning and threatening mail seem to be a common tactic being used to get people to pay the fine. Is there nothing we can do to highlight this issue to whoever makes these laws so that AT is forced to display proper signage. I'm not against bus lanes at all but there should be good signage to advise drivers their rights and AT appears to be using loopholes in the law to exploit citizens. 


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Uber Geek


  #2438219 14-Mar-2020 20:17
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fair go ran a story on this before. I suspect if you guys collated your additional individual cases from recently (since some of the sneaky times went 24/7 when it's not really gridlocked outside of that). You would probably have a group case that they may look into or revisit it.

AT doesn't seem to like investigation or being asked for stats around fines and their true impact..

 
 
 
 


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  #2438222 14-Mar-2020 20:19
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t0ny:

Having experienced something similar, i have noticed that AT takes a very heavy-handed view of the situation just because they are legally not obliged to display proper signage for bus lanes. Warning and threatening mail seem to be a common tactic being used to get people to pay the fine. Is there nothing we can do to highlight this issue to whoever makes these laws so that AT is forced to display proper signage. I'm not against bus lanes at all but there should be good signage to advise drivers their rights and AT appears to be using loopholes in the law to exploit citizens. 



What is proper signage? 10 feet high in neon?

Generally I've found bus lane being written all over the road a pretty good indicator but maybe I'm over simplifying it



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Uber Geek


  #2441591 19-Mar-2020 19:02
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networkn:

 

IF the bus lanes are indeed designed to keep traffic moving in Auckland, and IF it's not about revenue gathering, then the people who analyse things at NZTA would look at the HUGE discrepancy between the locations and their tickets and realize there is a critical issue on Kyber Pass

 



Bang on, I actually ended up getting fined twice, I thought the second one was a reminder of the 1st, until I noticed it was exactly 1 week later.

Is soooooo absurd. There were no cars on any lanes but cars coming down the hill. But you have to cross the 3 lanes to turn left into what becomes a small 40m 4th lane, so of course you naturally think to get into the lane as early as possible as has been done for the 50 years that I remember.

So 50m is absurd and dangerous in itself, as thats nearly as long as the entire 4th turning lane. If you get stuck in the far right lane, you can quite easily cause an accident holding up traffic waiting for multiple vehicles to let you over to the far left lane including buses no longer using the bus lane.

And on a Sunday at 10am. Come on AT, you guys are gangsta, its obvious you are working with the 5O trying to turn an instinctive and historically intuitive turn into dime$ to pay for your terrible employees who have no concept on how to create transport infrastructure.

10am minimal people are on that road on a Saturday/Sunday, so why is it 24 hours? And if I kill a child because Im reading the 30 street signs from the turn onto Khyber and left hand turn to Parnell, how do you think Im going to feel let alone the family, simply because there is an absurd number of street signs. I think somebody else raised this and its true. WAY too many.

I was pretty angry at first, but the night after I got the second one I had chilled out and realised Ive been legally but immorally defrauded by my council and police. If you have no income $300 could be a lot of money. Its a ludicrous fine for something that is so easy to do and if you grew up making the turn, is instinctive to do. There is no way to know you are in a lane you shouldnt unless you are taking your eyes off the road constantly.




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Uber Geek


  #2441597 19-Mar-2020 19:07
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Oblivian: (since some of the sneaky times went 24/7 when it's not really gridlocked outside of that). You would probably have a group case that they may look into or revisit it.

AT doesn't seem to like investigation or being asked for stats around fines and their true impact..


That is the totally messed up part, there is absolutely 100% no need for a bus lane there on weekends. It is only during peak our work that it becomes a minor issue.

Which backs up this being about making money not actually doing what is right by the public. Auckland Transport are all about deceiving people into taking money from the poor or rich, regardless how absurd the individual case is, if it is on a sign, some how that makes it morally correct?


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Ultimate Geek

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  #2441655 19-Mar-2020 19:46
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Handle9: What is proper signage? 10 feet high in neon?

Generally I've found bus lane being written all over the road a pretty good indicator but maybe I'm over simplifying it


The issue is not that there is no signage if there is a bus lane. It is about when it is safe to move into a bus lane when making a left turn

318 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2441690 19-Mar-2020 20:33
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So I’ve just been in Newmarket and I thought I’d stop by and have a look at this intersection, see what all the fuss is about. So it’s abundantly clear there’s a bus lane - lots of signage, paint and it’s written on the road.

If it’s not obvious to you this is a bus lane then I would say you shouldn’t be driving full stop.

Click to see full size Click to see full size

I will say that it would be easier and better if the bus lane didn’t stop by the BP and then start again at the Wilson parking building (should run the whole way IMO).

The assertion that AT are out revenue gathering and nothing else is just silly.




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  #2441708 19-Mar-2020 20:49
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Where is the sign to indicate that it is safe to use the bus lane to turn left into Broadway street? You would expect one within 50 meters. Notice the camera next to the Wilson car park, AT captures anyone in the bus lane using those cameras regardless if you turning left to go to Broadway or not.

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Ultimate Geek


  #2441709 19-Mar-2020 20:50
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The signage is really clear - bus lane begins, bus lane ends, bus lane begins, bus lane ends. Then there’s a cycle lane, and close to the intersection with Broadway a left hand turn lane appears.

To interpret the signs - it’s bus lane, the hours the lane operates, and then begins. This is telling you a bus lane operating between 7am and 7pm Monday to Sunday starts at this point (marked by the sign and the green and white paint). It’s so clear and so obvious.

How you handle this situation is you drive in the traffic lane and at the point the left hand turn lane appears, cross the cycle lane (indicating and checking for traffic in the cycle lane of course) enter the left hand turn lane. Simple as. Don’t drive in the bus lane and you won’t have a problem.

This bus lane collects a lot of infringements because it is a busy intersection on a busy road (which is the whole reason the bus lane exists by the way).




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318 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2441712 19-Mar-2020 21:00
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t0ny: Where is the sign to indicate that it is safe to use the bus lane to turn left into Broadway street? You would expect one within 50 meters. Notice the camera next to the Wilson car park, AT captures anyone in the bus lane using those cameras regardless if you turning left to go to Broadway or not.

There isn’t a sign indicating this because there generally aren’t signs indicating this in my experience. This is usually marked by dotted white paint - and there isn’t any dotted white paint here.

You simply do not need to be in the bus lane to make the turn as the bus lane ends well short of the intersection and well short of where the left turning lane begins.




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