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736 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2424432 20-Feb-2020 11:07
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One wonders what the top of The Mountain will look like this year.


 



Supercars TrackSide spoke with Roland Dane yesterday ahead of the Adelaide opening round.

RD got a call text Monday morning about it, then saw the press release like everyone else. RD was going to be talking with GM/Holden about what happens now as they Red Bull Racing Australia have a contract to be the Official factory Holden team until the end of 2021.

I'd guess that RD and his outfit will run the existing Commodore until the end of 2021.

As for the race at a hill in the bush, I think this year's will have a big crowd, but for the 2021 race I think you'll see crowds the same size as when at certain icon died.

I wouldn't think that the Holden team's will go through the expense of putting another manufacturers body over the existing Car of The Future chassis when the gen 3 regs are due to be in for the 2022 season

243 posts

Master Geek


  #2424474 20-Feb-2020 12:52
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Aussie automobile commentator John Cadogan attempts to quantify the accelarated rate of depreciation facing Holden owners wth GM disappearing over the horizon;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp5pI7DsRWc

 

Warning: Contains swearing.

 

 

 

 





Obsequious hypocrite

 
 
 
 


116 posts

Master Geek


  #2424480 20-Feb-2020 13:14
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ShinyChrome:

 

 

 

They may both look like ugly land whales, but only the 5th gen/ZB Commodore was a re-badged Opel Insignia, the rest (V*) were manufactured in Aus. They may be based on a common GM platform, but that's it.

 

First paragraph of the Commie wiki page:

 

 

 

The Holden Commodore is a medium to large sedan sold by Holden since 1978. It was manufactured from 1978 to 2017 in Australia and from 1979 to 1990 in New Zealand, with production in Australia ending on 20 October 2017.[2] Production of the Commodore ended in late 2019.

 

 

 

Above that:

 

Not to be confused with Opel Commodore.

 

 

The VB Commodore was designed in Germany by Opel. Every Commodore ever produced by Holden is an Opel designed Australian variant. The Torana even (Vauxhall).

 

I have a callout but when I get back I'll post some other links for you to peruse....and screenshots.


315 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2424501 20-Feb-2020 14:03
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ObidiahSlope:

 

Aussie automobile commentator John Cadogan attempts to quantify the accelarated rate of depreciation facing Holden owners wth GM disappearing over the horizon;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp5pI7DsRWc

 

Warning: Contains swearing.

 

 

He has a lot of good information on his channel. I just wish he'd stop reveling in how witty he thinks he is.

 

The takeaway from this is that the depreciation will be so much faster and severe than other brands that unless you can score around a AU$20,000 discount on a AU$60,000 car, you'll still end up worse off than buying a AU$60,000 vehicle from another brand that is still viable. I'm sure NZ$ figures will be similar.


14960 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2424545 20-Feb-2020 14:19
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Gurezaemon:

 

 

 

He has a lot of good information on his channel. I just wish he'd stop reveling in how witty he thinks he is.

 

The takeaway from this is that the depreciation will be so much faster and severe than other brands that unless you can score around a AU$20,000 discount on a AU$60,000 car, you'll still end up worse off than buying a AU$60,000 vehicle from another brand that is still viable. I'm sure NZ$ figures will be similar.

 

 

He knows cars and the auto industry but he is so, so, so cringy to watch that I gave up on him. Four years ago when I first subscribed he was good but I unsubbed when his foul mouth just seem to dominate of facts and figures.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


671 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2424549 20-Feb-2020 14:27
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K8Toledo:

 

The VB Commodore was designed in Germany by Opel. Every Commodore ever produced by Holden is an Opel designed Australian variant. The Torana even (Vauxhall).

 

I have a callout but when I get back I'll post some other links for you to peruse....and screenshots.

 

 

I would contend that re-badged != common design platform or ancestry. It's kinda like saying I am a re-badged version of my cousin, when we are quite different yet linked by common ancestry; whereas if I had an identical twin-brother, I would be a re-badged version of him. Actually no, imaginary twin is a re-badged version of me, I was first. And better.

 

You are correct in that the ancient V platform was designed by Opel, but parts-bin slapped together and manufactured by Holden and further diluted with every progressive generation. Until 2007 with the introduction of the GM Zeta platform, which was developed by Holden, and used until the only true re-badging (and bringing a tear to many VB-crushing, 'roo smashing, Neighbours-loving Awww-zzies), the ZB commie/Opel Insignia.

 

Again, I would still stand by that there is a big difference between "Every Commodore ever produced by Holden is an Opel designed Australian variant" or it being a re-badged Opel, neither of which is true regardless of the year, and the above.

 

I imagine the V-hates are gonna hold their value pretty well, as they have traditionally done, but every other Holden just took a nose-dive in their re-sale. I remember reading/hearing somewhere (maybe in this very thread) that GM intends to maintain service and parts for 5-10 years, but I wonder how they intend to deliver that if all of GM is pulling out. Mail-order cheque?


116 posts

Master Geek


  #2424733 21-Feb-2020 01:37
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ShinyChrome:

 

K8Toledo:

 

The VB Commodore was designed in Germany by Opel. Every Commodore ever produced by Holden is an Opel designed Australian variant. The Torana even (Vauxhall).

 

I have a callout but when I get back I'll post some other links for you to peruse....and screenshots.

 

 

I would contend that re-badged != common design platform or ancestry. It's kinda like saying I am a re-badged version of my cousin, when we are quite different yet linked by common ancestry; whereas if I had an identical twin-brother, I would be a re-badged version of him. Actually no, imaginary twin is a re-badged version of me, I was first. And better.

 

You are correct in that the ancient V platform was designed by Opel, but parts-bin slapped together and manufactured by Holden and further diluted with every progressive generation. Until 2007 with the introduction of the GM Zeta platform, which was developed by Holden, and used until the only true re-badging (and bringing a tear to many VB-crushing, 'roo smashing, Neighbours-loving Awww-zzies), the ZB commie/Opel Insignia.

 

Again, I would still stand by that there is a big difference between "Every Commodore ever produced by Holden is an Opel designed Australian variant" or it being a re-badged Opel, neither of which is true regardless of the year, and the above.

 

I imagine the V-hates are gonna hold their value pretty well, as they have traditionally done, but every other Holden just took a nose-dive in their re-sale. I remember reading/hearing somewhere (maybe in this very thread) that GM intends to maintain service and parts for 5-10 years, but I wonder how they intend to deliver that if all of GM is pulling out. Mail-order cheque?

 

The rebadging is bigger than Holden/Opel it's how GM do business.  I just got back in after a long night so for now I'll link you to a WP page illustrating General Motors global production and marketing which would be in your best interests to read first. 

 

It shows the big picture quite well, you'll see what I mean by that when studying the two tables shown halfway down the page. I'll post back tomorrow.. :)

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_platform

 

General overview....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_platforms

 

Main article on GM

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_platforms#Current_and_historical_applications

 

And the tables

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


671 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2424778 21-Feb-2020 08:54
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K8Toledo:

 

The rebadging is bigger than Holden/Opel it's how GM do business.  I just got back in after a long night so for now I'll link you to a WP page illustrating General Motors global production and marketing which would be in your best interests to read first. 

 

It shows the big picture quite well, you'll see what I mean by that when studying the two tables shown halfway down the page. I'll post back tomorrow.. :)

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_platform

 

General overview....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_platforms

 

Main article on GM

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_platforms#Current_and_historical_applications

 

And the tables

 

 

It must have been a long night if you were posting it at 01:37 in the morning haha.

 

Thanks for the info, and I am aware of the concept of car platforms, having worked in the auto industry as a service tech for 2 major OEMs. Not just GM, but every major auto group practices it, as well as parts-bin sharing. As you said, its how these companies do business, and makes sense; why reinvent the wheel(s)?

 

I think you may have missed my point though. Sharing a common platform is not rebadging. A Pontiac G8 is a rebadged VE Commodore. A 5th gen. Camaro is not, it just shares the Zeta platform.

 

 

 

I must also lament another victim of this sad tale; the Holden Ute. It may not be the workhorse most utes are, but in the SS/Maloo variety, a good-ole'-boy V8 in a pick-up truck. The kid in me has always wanted one... on the other hand, the adult in me still remembers some of the questionable build quality in various Holden models I have worked on in the past years...

 

Pour one out and rip one last smoky one for it...


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