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146 posts

Master Geek


  #2514942 30-Jun-2020 10:50
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One issue with some suppliers is how long the batteries sit around before being sold. Lead acid batteries do not last well in storage.


1203 posts

Uber Geek


  #2514945 30-Jun-2020 10:57
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mrdrifter:

 

My last car battery was an 'AA' branded one, I'm not sure who the OEM is underneath, but I wouldn't put one back in. It only lasted just a fraction over 3 years and would have been purchased slightly earlier than yours 2015/16. I wasn't super impressed when the battery prior to that had lasted 8 1/2 years. 

 

Like I said above, the manufacturers a good at setting the warranty. You get what you pay for. If you had of scrimped and installed a battery with a 24 month warranty, chances are it would also have failed soon after the warranty expired.

 

It isn't an apples to apples comparison when comparing domestic kiwi batteries (such as AA batteries, century, exide etc) with JDM batteries which frequently last 7 or 8 years. Kiwi motorists are generally cheap-skates and won't pay top dollar for top quality batteries, so the NZ market is primarily flooded cell batteries, where as the JDM batteries are generally superior technology (heavy duty, AGM, Gel etc) that store better and last longer.

 

I typically get 5 years out of NZ batteries, but i spend a little more on them. I don't undershoot on the CCA, buy ones with >36 month warranties, and if I accidentally run them down I always recharge them with a mains charger when I get home (leaving lead acid partially charged causes accelerated ageing (sulfation) and an unassisted alternator takes days/weeks to completely recharge a flattened battery).


 
 
 
 


2572 posts

Uber Geek


  #2515218 30-Jun-2020 18:52
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I've had good experience with AA-branded card batteries, typically getting 5 - 7 years out of them. If you are having multiple periods of extended non-use (as suggested by the discussion around maintenance chargers etc), that can cause faster deterioration of the battery. I would be validating the CCA rating of the battery vs the manufacturers spec, as well as checking the draw off and under load. Killing batteries that fast is commonly associated with either minor electrical issues, or unusual use/charge patterns. That said, I mean it sounds like you've checked these things, so maybe a specific model of battery produced by a cheaper manufacturer? What type of car and what CCA rating is the battery? I am fairly sure the <600CCA batteries are a different manufacturer, and even different type of battery, than the 600+ range, at least they used to be.


947 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2515303 30-Jun-2020 20:28
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We had an two and half year old AA battery fail (leak) and cause significant damage to the wiring loam on our car

 

AA paid up approx $1000 for the repairs required without any fuss, now that is what I call service i.e. paying up for consequential damage resulting from their failed product

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Uber Geek

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  #2515322 30-Jun-2020 20:41
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tripper1000:

 

mrdrifter:

 

My last car battery was an 'AA' branded one, I'm not sure who the OEM is underneath, but I wouldn't put one back in. It only lasted just a fraction over 3 years and would have been purchased slightly earlier than yours 2015/16. I wasn't super impressed when the battery prior to that had lasted 8 1/2 years. 

 

Like I said above, the manufacturers a good at setting the warranty. You get what you pay for. If you had of scrimped and installed a battery with a 24 month warranty, chances are it would also have failed soon after the warranty expired.

 

It isn't an apples to apples comparison when comparing domestic kiwi batteries (such as AA batteries, century, exide etc) with JDM batteries which frequently last 7 or 8 years. Kiwi motorists are generally cheap-skates and won't pay top dollar for top quality batteries, so the NZ market is primarily flooded cell batteries, where as the JDM batteries are generally superior technology (heavy duty, AGM, Gel etc) that store better and last longer.

 

I typically get 5 years out of NZ batteries, but i spend a little more on them. I don't undershoot on the CCA, buy ones with >36 month warranties, and if I accidentally run them down I always recharge them with a mains charger when I get home (leaving lead acid partially charged causes accelerated ageing (sulfation) and an unassisted alternator takes days/weeks to completely recharge a flattened battery).

 

 

I'm puzzled why you thing AGM or Gel is superior technology for a cranking application? For storage batteries sure but not for cranking.


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Uber Geek

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  #2515353 30-Jun-2020 21:37
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Handle9:

 

I'm puzzled why you thing AGM or Gel is superior technology for a cranking application? For storage batteries sure but not for cranking.

 

 

Thats the recommendation and reminds me of a time I used the 'wrong' battery in my car. Many years ago when I was poor and had not long started at a new job, my old mitsi's battery pooped itself not long after I got the car. At my then job I had access to 'free' AGM batteries that had been used in small solar power systems. By the time the batteries were available they were 5-7 years old and at the point when the manufacturer recommended disposal.

 

 

 

I got one of these old AGM batteries and began fitting it to my car. One of the experienced staff saw me doing this and said 'you realise these are AGM and not recommended for cranking or vehicle use? The current draw and vibration will kill it'.

 

I said yes, thank you, I just need something to get me going for the rest of the week. I finished the installation and off I went. FIVE YEARS later when rust killed the car, that battery was still cranking away quite happily.

 

Moral of the story, follow the recommendations but be aware there are statistical outliers in both directions.


1203 posts

Uber Geek


  #2515732 1-Jul-2020 16:24
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Handle9: I'm puzzled why you thing AGM or Gel is superior technology for a cranking application? For storage batteries sure but not for cranking. 

 

AGM batteries are excellent for cranking applications. Due to lower internal impedance AGM is highly desirable in high current applications such as cranking batteries and UPS's. In a nutshell you get more CCA out of a smaller battery. It also recharges faster which is desirable in a car doing short trips. LINK 


 
 
 
 


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  #2515753 1-Jul-2020 17:00
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tripper1000:

Handle9: I'm puzzled why you thing AGM or Gel is superior technology for a cranking application? For storage batteries sure but not for cranking. 


AGM batteries are excellent for cranking applications. Due to lower internal impedance AGM is highly desirable in high current applications such as cranking batteries and UPS's. In a nutshell you get more CCA out of a smaller battery. It also recharges faster which is desirable in a car doing short trips. LINK 



Lol. UPS and cranking are almost the opposite application. UPS needs a storage battery with a constant low current deep discharge characteristic. Cranking batteries need high instantaneous current and almost never discharge deeply.

AGM is a great technology but has limitations. It's particularly sensitive to high temperature and crap chargers. Once they gas you're screwed - you can't put more water in them. If you have a suitable application it's fine but most people have no understanding of the different technologies - most AGM batteries are storage batteries and have very low CCA due to the plate design.

In a previous life I worked for a VRLA and gel battery importer who sold mostly to the storage market. I also did my final year uni project on high speed charging of lead acid batteries.

146 posts

Master Geek


  #2515762 1-Jul-2020 17:12
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have very low CCA due to the plate design.

 

 

 

This is the important point. Regardless of whether a battery is AGM or flooded, or anything else. Starter batteries are designed for high current short duration cranking, Deep cycle storage batteries are designed for, well, deep cycling constant loads. You can use multiple different battery types for either task as long as they are designed for that application.

 

 

 

The plates in a deep cycle battery tend to be thinner and more closely packed, if you draw too much current they can buckle and short and destroy the battery.

 

Starter batteries typically have thicker more widely spaced plates that are far less likely to buckle. Both battery types can do each others job to an extent, but not as well as the proper type and most likely they will fail much sooner if used incorrectly.


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