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368 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2526632 21-Jul-2020 16:06
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2017 Suzuki Vitara JLX, our European car........Country of origin Hungary. 

 

Replace Continental eco, recommended Falken ZE914EC  





:)


1030 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2526834 21-Jul-2020 23:36
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Like others here I find it difficult to evaluate tires prior to purchase. Professional review's are sparse, and user reviews are quire subjective, and typically reflective of USA, Aust & UK tire models & driving conditions.

Tires are a bit of a saga. First time I ever brought tires (was for a P11 primea), I went to one of the discount places (one that puts a sticker on your back window without asking permission) & asked for a price new tire's price was cheap so I went ahead. Ended up with some Chinese made tires with a 3 letter brand name. I don't recall grip or feel being an issue (might just had been I was used to crap tires), but some time down the track, I took it to a mechanic due to steering shake, and it was diagnosed to be out of round tires. That was when I worked out tire shopping purely on price might not be the best idea.

 

 

 

Next car I had was an ex-rental 1.8L corolla. It had a different type of economy tire at every corner. Had to be extremely soft with the accelerator when starting off in the wet, of the car would give heaps of wheel spin, and barley move. I also recall having the ABS kick in when slowing for a que for a carpark exit booth in the wet...

 

When they were worn down, I replaced them with GT Radial Champero 228's (performance touring tire). They were the top rated tire in one of Consumer NZ's tests for wet breaking. OMG what a difference. The car no longer slid all over the place in the wet. I liked them a lot.

 

For the next replacement the 228's had been discontinued & the pricing of the inferior 128 was kinda high. As such I went with bridge-stone Turanza Serenity Plus, A long life touring tire. Low noise was a feature which I was keen on as the corolla hatchback is quite loud on course chip roads. Grip was acceptable, but noticeably less than the GT Radials, but the bigger issue was that it seemed to take constant effort to keep the car in a straight line on the open road. Not at all what I expected from a touring tire from a reputable brand. When I took the car back to the tire shop they recommended running them underinflated (compared to Toyota's recommendation) which I wasn't keen on. That car don't really leave the city these days, so it is a lesser issue.

We got an additional car a couple of years back. It's a heavy 200kW massively front biased AWD hybrid SUV. Has Bridgestone Ecopia EP850's on it. Actually I don't mind them, the car feels nice and planed on the open road. Pritty easy to spin the front wheels, but I think that will always be the case when you send most of the 200kW to the front. Car is a luxary model with soft suspension, so doesn't suit being pushed hard into bends anyway. The tires are now all down to 3 - 3.5mm of tread depth and are getting chewed out on the corners. They are starting to get more slippery in the wet now they are getting worn down.

 

I recently brought a lightly used, young set of four Michelin Latitude Tour HP tires which are sitting in the garage waiting for my current tires to reach end of life. Frankly I am quite keen to give try them on. Will be interesting to see if my economy takes much of a hit moving away from eco tires. Those tires are $563.50 each + fitting from Beaurepaires. I can't really afford to drop that sort of money on a consumable... But I snapped up the used set for $360.

 

Only question now is how low I run the tread of my current tires down before swapping them out.

 

surfisup1000:

 

I think they are 2016....probably fitted them 2018'ish-- so 2 years old when they were fitted.

 

I think there is around 10-12 months of tread left on them. Couple of photos showing tread and cracking. Car is garaged all the time too. 

 

Click to see full size

 

Click to see full size

 

 

 



That tread pattern looks very familiar.

 

My suv has (what I assume are the same) Bridgestone Ecopia EP850's on it.

I have two pairs of date codes. (I will post the exact date codes tomorrow - All the tires are mounted with them on the inside, and crawling under the car in the rain & dark sucks)

The older pair of tires are still many years from the 10 year limit on bridge-stones website, but frankly the rubber degradation is getting a little concerning:

 

Click to see full size

 

Click to see full size

 

Click to see full size

 

Even the younger tire pair already has substantially Pershing visable.

Click to see full size

 

I note that bridgestone NZ no longer offers this tire in my size. Seems to have been replaced by the Bridgestone Ecopia H/L 001 (Higher load rating, same speed rating) and / or Bridgestone Ecopia H/L 422 Plus (same load rating, but H instead of V speed rated).

Kinda overwhelming that Bridgestone NZ offers 7 different options in my SUV's tire size, All being road focused, and none being a performance tire (that said my spare is a bridge-stone potenza so it must have been offered at some point). Not a massive variation in load rating either, 5 tires at 104, and 2 at 100. This tire size is fitted to both SUV's and sedans such as the 300C. 


 
 
 
 


12 posts

Geek


  #2526861 22-Jul-2020 08:16
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I had Pirelli p1s on my Subaru in 205/55/16. They lasted 60,000km and have a 420 wear rating. Used to handle well in the wet and on the open road. They were a bloody good price too. Got them for 130 a tyre at Hyperdrive on special. Had Ep100s on a previous car and they seemed to wear very quickly. 




980 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2526882 22-Jul-2020 09:12
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tecnam2003: Guess they dont interpret Cross Climate  like they do a head office in France...or live in Otago


I guess the problem is that they appear to fundamentally winter tyres. Come summer you'd destroy them. I spent many a winter in Central Otago. If I was there again I'd either have two sets of wheels or just put snow tyres on a dedicated vehicle. I gave friends who have old Land Rovers, with snow tyres that are only used for going to the ski fields.
I'd just put a sticky performance tyre on instead.

1030 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2527151 22-Jul-2020 13:58
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mudguard:
tecnam2003: Guess they dont interpret Cross Climate  like they do a head office in France...or live in Otago


I guess the problem is that they appear to fundamentally winter tyres. Come summer you'd destroy them. I spent many a winter in Central Otago. If I was there again I'd either have two sets of wheels or just put snow tyres on a dedicated vehicle. I gave friends who have old Land Rovers, with snow tyres that are only used for going to the ski fields.
I'd just put a sticky performance tyre on instead.

 

The Cross Climate (and the updated CrossClimate+) is an all season tire, rather than a dedicated winter tire.

 

"The CrossClimate is defined as a summer tire homologated for winter conditions," said Carter. "It carries the 'Three-Peak Mountain Snowflake' (3PMSF) symbol, showing that it's fully winter capable. It is not, however, a winter tire like the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 or Pilot Alpin PA4, which are recommended for climates with severe cold and/or precipitation (snow)."

 

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/michelin-crossclimate-new-type-tire/

 

 

 

The whole summer / all season / winter tires thing is something we don't really deal with in NZ. This is despite there being area's in NZ which experience cold weather (below 7 deg C), snow & ice where winter & all season tires give an advantage.

 

Summer tires - Designed to preform well in hot & warm conditions. Tire such tire compounds typically hardens below 7 deg C, reducing traction. Can potentially be permanently damaged by use in near of below freezing conditions. Most ultra high performance tires are in this category.

 

All season tires - Typically have a m+s marking on the sidewall (mud+snow) - Designed to preform well in warm conditions, but not suffer the cold weather issues of the above. As such they are essentially a compromise, giving up performance at both ends of the spectrum, in order to proform acceptably at both ends of the temperature specrium.

 

Winter Tires - Specifically designed for use in temperatures below 7 degrees. Tread pattern designed to designed to grip snow, slush & ice (as well as wet roads). Typcically have a snowflake inside a 3 peak mountain (3PSMF) icon on the sidewall (north american standard), or the word "studless". Typically have lots of little siping (wavy lines cut into tread blocks) The intent is that these tires only be run a few months a year. As such they are aggressively optimized for traction in adverse cold conditions at the expense of other characteristics like tread life, and handeling in good conditions. Wear very fast if left on the car in summer

 

 

 

Confusing the matter more is the the test procedure in order to display the 3PSMF is based on outperforming a reference non winter tire. The reference tire is now old tech, and as such tire makers can get non winter specific tire designs to pass, and hence display the symbol, despite the preforming being nowhere near that of a modern winter specific tire. Hence the likes of the crossclimate tire above, along with a raft of all terrain SUV tires with the symbol on the side.

 

In NZ all season tires often contain no reference to that status. As an example the GT radial champero 228's that were previously on my corolla have the M+S marking and are sold as all season tires in other market's, but there is was no reference to it on any of the marketing material.

I typically end up with all season tires on my car's, despite not seeking it out. It appears to be a common rating for mid range to higher end touring tires.

My understanding is that all season tires are a pretty common OEM fitment on non-performance cars in north america, where summer tires are more common in Europe (with the expectation that customers in colder area's will buy a dedicated set of winter tires).

 

Further complicating the situation in NZ, is that All season / winter tires are not sufficiently understood and they are not recognized as an alternative to snow chains (for both private skifield access roads and public roads). As a comparison, California has the following restrictions for light non towing vehicles.

R1: Traction devices on all vehicles without snow tires
R2: Traction devices on all vehicles without snow tires & 4wd/AWD
R3: Traction devices on all vehicles

 

Note that California accepts M+S tires as snow tires in the above.

 

 

 

Most of the winter/snow tire's you see in NZ have come in on used import cars from japan. Many end up being used in inappropriate conditions, by owners who are likely unaware that they are using tires that are not designed for use in warm weather.

In terms of NZ regulations, in april 2011 a law change came into effect banning the mixing of snow tires (significantly mismatched tires with the gripper tires on the front can increase the chance of a spin). The minimum tread depth for winter tires was change to 4mm (1.5mm for normal tires. Manufactures of winter tires typically have there wear bars at between 4 & 5mm.

There have been some fatalities in NZ linked to snow tires.

Unhelpfully in 2011 a coroner called for the nationwide ban of snow tires. Ignoring the obvious safety advantages they offer to those using them appropriately.


3372 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2527305 22-Jul-2020 17:15
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kotuku4:

2017 Suzuki Vitara JLX, our European car........Country of origin Hungary. 


Replace Continental eco, recommended Falken ZE914EC  



How many kms did you get out of the Continentals and what sort of price is real for the Falken? I've seen $100 difference in advertised price.

1030 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2527829 23-Jul-2020 15:31
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Got the date stamps for the tires I commented on above.

Newer pairs stamp is 4417 (manufacture date: 44th week of 2017)

Older pairs stamp is 4414

Scott3:

 

Click to see full size

 

 

 

Click to see full size

 

Even the younger tire pair already has substantially Pershing visible.

Click to see full size

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


64 posts

Master Geek


  #2527831 23-Jul-2020 15:41
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I had that on some continentals in the UK, the tires were 3 years old but as I bought a car with them on, Continental said they would not honour any warranty as I could not guarantee the tires had been used within their limits. Never bought a pair since, they were noisy and lacking grip, admittedly likely cos of the perished rubber, but I consider that Continentals loss not mine, plenty of other tires out there.


Mad Scientist
22611 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2527836 23-Jul-2020 15:46
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Scott3:

Got the date stamps for the tires I commented on above.

Newer pairs stamp is 4417 (manufacture date: 44th week of 2017)

Older pairs stamp is 4414

Scott3:


Click to see full size


 


Click to see full size


Even the younger tire pair already has substantially Pershing visible.

Click to see full size


 




I'm not sure if that's not to be expected . You'd expect some anomalies after having them out of the road for 6 years and 3 years.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


64 posts

Master Geek


  #2527839 23-Jul-2020 15:50
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south island?


15344 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2527851 23-Jul-2020 16:33
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I have always gone the path of least hassle and fitted vehicle manufacturers recommendation. Having said I seldom buy tyres I tend to trade my vehicles before they need replacing with sidewall punctures being the exception which is the main reason I buy a tyre or two.





Mike

 

Consultant

 


The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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