Zero Tolerance Limits now

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Smpl Mnmlst
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#2559917 7-Sep-2020 20:46

MikeB4:

@networkn I don’t think the folks who bang on endlessly that it’s about quotas wouldn’t accept it even if there was a document signed by the GG, PM, 15 Judges, the 10 Disciples and Richie McCaw. If they did then they will have to accept its their own fault they get speeding tickets.

I wouldn’t accept it because I’d really want to know why two of the disciples hadn’t signed. 😀

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Technofreak

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#2559944 7-Sep-2020 21:05

eracode:

MikeB4:

@networkn I don’t think the folks who bang on endlessly that it’s about quotas wouldn’t accept it even if there was a document signed by the GG, PM, 15 Judges, the 10 Disciples and Richie McCaw. If they did then they will have to accept its their own fault they get speeding tickets.

I wouldn’t accept it because I’d really want to know why two of the disciples hadn’t signed. 😀

Getting right of topic now but I think you two might be referring to the apostles. I think there were 12 of them. I have an idea the disciples may number in the millions. 😎

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MartinGZ

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#2559965 7-Sep-2020 22:10

Eva888:

I’m willing to bet I’ve held a licence a lot longer than most and so far direct osmosis from the speedo to my foot on the accelerator hasn’t worked efficiently in keeping to the EXACT limit without watching the speedo with my eyes. Cruise Control isn’t a feature of my car.

You might like to describe to all us Comedy Club trainees how you manage to drive without glancing at your speedo.

OK, I've had a license for 51 years, many of them driving 50-80,000 km p.a. just on business alone. I've only had one speeding ticket, when i was overtaking a truck, and yes I knew I was speeding at the time.

Of course you can't keep to an exact speed all the time, but I'm certainly aware of changes in speed. Engine noise (never lucky enough to run a Jag), speed of passing objects, relationship with the vehicle in front all lead me to check the speedo if change is noticed. But I also check the speedo, just as I check my rear mirror. Defensive driving courses (the good ones) can teach you a lot. Develop an empathy with your vehicle.

shk292:

Considering this thread is about zero tolerance and how silly it is, and according to the rules you've stated above you could drive at 54.9kph throughout your entire driving test and pass, you've kind of contradicted yourself.

Keeping within +- 5kph of the limit is easy. Never straying even slightly over 50kph without driving slowly enough to be a PITA to others is a bit more challenging.

Ha, nice one. Anyone driving at 54.9 kph throughout the 30 min driving test, would I imagine fail the test for just about any and all of the failure conditions!

As has been stated many times, our speed limits are Maximum speeds as set by regulations. There is no +/- 5 kph. Slowing down a bit is not going to cause you to lose hours from your day. For most journeys, it's a tiny percentage, a few minutes. Allow the time for the journey.

Personally I have no problems driving through the 3 km of roadworks at 30 kph, and when I look in my mirror, nor do all those nice careful drivers behind me.

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snnet

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#2559968 7-Sep-2020 22:31

MartinGZ:

Personally I have no problems driving through the 3 km of roadworks at 30 kph, and when I look in my mirror, nor do all those nice careful drivers behind me.

lol what paradise are you living in? extremely rare to have that happen where I am! They're usually basically pushing you along with their front bumper cant wait for you to pull over. I also find people's attitudes in general "temporary" speed limited zones lax. Drops from 100 to 70 for whatever reason and you get abused for following the speed limit just because it has "temporary" underneath it

I hate driving because of other drivers. I don't think I'm the perfect driver but I'm a damn sight more courteous. Time to rethink some career choices maybe!

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
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#2560136 8-Sep-2020 10:45

Technofreak:

eracode:

I wouldn’t accept it because I’d really want to know why two of the disciples hadn’t signed. 😀

Getting right of topic now but I think you two might be referring to the apostles. I think there were 12 of them. 😎

Nah - still very much on topic. Indeed there are Twelve Apostles - they live on the Great Ocean Road in Victoria - where there is a very strict speed limit.

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sen8or

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#2560155 8-Sep-2020 11:14

I get up to 4 different speed readings on my way home - speed sign as I approach Lincoln, GPS on my phone, GPS on radar detector and my speedo. Speedo is the highest, usually 5-7km/h or so above anything else, both gps readings are lower (although almost always 1km/h different) and speed sign is 1-2 km/h above lowest GPS reading, which one is accurate?

I simply don't see it likely that speed cameras will be adjusted to ticket at 51 (or 1km/hr over posted speed limit). There is simply too much room for subtle variations that only a very small % of the driving population would likely be able to control 100% of the time. A work colleague recently got a speed camera ticket at 55 in a 50 which seemed rough, but he was doing the speed so has to pay the fine, so maybe 5 is the new magic number for cameras, really not sure.

I really don't see any rolling patrol (or speed trap set ups) nabbing anyone just for doing 1-5 over. Now, if you add the speed to something else (talking on cell phone, failing to indicate, no seat belt etc etc etc) then I think you may find yourself on the receiving end of dual tickets, but in a line of traffic flowing, just can't see it.

shk292

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#2560268 8-Sep-2020 13:13

I guess the thing that would most annoy me about such a move is that it’s just an easy target. Every day I see people using phones while driving, jumping red lights, speeding way in excess of the limit, tail gating, etc. Statistics show that unroadworthy vehicles and failing to wear seatbelts are serious causes of death and injury. And yet the police would effectively be ignoring all of these to target safe drivers in safe vehicles driving at safe speeds.

MarkH67

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#2560297 8-Sep-2020 13:34

shk292: And yet the police would effectively be ignoring all of these to target safe drivers in safe vehicles driving at safe speeds.

I have to agree - more time and money is spent on the law that is easy to enforce. Going from 10kph tolerance to 4kph tolerance to no tolerance must surely be producing less and less benefit in terms of lives saved while it is targetting more and more safe drivers that are pretty much obeying the law. I think that making the average Joe feel like a criminal and setting up an us vs them mentality is likely to alienate many more members of the public. Even on these forums we are seeing some 'Karen' types that suggest travelling at 101kph in a 100kph zone means that you DESERVE a ticket! To me it comes across as a bit nitpicky.

If a lower average speed is desired then a zero tolerance isn't the only way to achieve that, but it is the way that will set more of the public against the police.

frankv

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#2560306 8-Sep-2020 13:48

shk292: ...it’s just an easy target.

Yup... the LTSA and police have become fixated on speed, despite stats showing other things (e.g. tailgating) as being equally significant.

And then there's the Montana paradox. If the LTSA expects drivers to "Drive to the conditions" and use their judgment to decide what is a safe speed in bad conditions, then why can't they do so in *good* conditions? (But, of course, there's *no* training given to drivers on *how* to assess what speed is safe or not). It seems to me that a speed limit, often set in some arbitrary way with little regard for particular circumstances (e.g road surface, width of road), becomes the assumed safe speed. And, to often, is found not to be.

Oblivian

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#2560500 8-Sep-2020 20:26

And if you didn't believe all the 'nothing is really changing' earlier.

Horses mouth as a result of such commentary seen here it drew.

https://www.times.co.nz/news/police-clarify-speed-limit-enforcement/

Graymond

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#2560544 8-Sep-2020 22:33

snnet:

MartinGZ:

Personally I have no problems driving through the 3 km of roadworks at 30 kph, and when I look in my mirror, nor do all those nice careful drivers behind me.

lol what paradise are you living in? extremely rare to have that happen where I am! They're usually basically pushing you along with their front bumper cant wait for you to pull over. I also find people's attitudes in general "temporary" speed limited zones lax. Drops from 100 to 70 for whatever reason and you get abused for following the speed limit just because it has "temporary" underneath it

I hate driving because of other drivers. I don't think I'm the perfect driver but I'm a damn sight more courteous. Time to rethink some career choices maybe!

Raises an interesting point, why are road work speed restrictions not monitored, they should be, but I have yet to see that.

With the new 'no leeway ruling' a fortune could be made, as of course it could have been in the past.

MikeB4

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#2560869 9-Sep-2020 11:40

frankv:

shk292: ...it’s just an easy target.

Yup... the LTSA and police have become fixated on speed, despite stats showing other things (e.g. tailgating) as being equally significant.

And then there's the Montana paradox. If the LTSA expects drivers to "Drive to the conditions" and use their judgment to decide what is a safe speed in bad conditions, then why can't they do so in *good* conditions? (But, of course, there's *no* training given to drivers on *how* to assess what speed is safe or not). It seems to me that a speed limit, often set in some arbitrary way with little regard for particular circumstances (e.g road surface, width of road), becomes the assumed safe speed. And, to often, is found not to be.

Speed may or may not be the leading cause of death but physics tells you that the higher the speed the ability to avoid an accident diminishes the greater the mess in an accident. The accident may not kill you but being left disfigured and life long life altering injuries, life long pain, much reduced quality of life, is it really worth that few seconds or few minutes that you believe you save.

Take it form someone who has a very life altering condition (not conclusively accident related) and suffering lifelong sever pain since 25 it is not fun, it is not worth a few seconds or minutes. Yeah maybe your car can do 140kmh, 180kmh you cant. New Zealand drivers need to grow up, shut up and just follow the rules and stop being selfish jackasses.

shk292

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#2560881 9-Sep-2020 12:06

MikeB4:

Speed may or may not be the leading cause of death but physics tells you that the higher the speed the ability to avoid an accident diminishes the greater the mess in an accident. The accident may not kill you but being left disfigured and life long life altering injuries, life long pain, much reduced quality of life, is it really worth that few seconds or few minutes that you believe you save.

Take it form someone who has a very life altering condition (not conclusively accident related) and suffering lifelong sever pain since 25 it is not fun, it is not worth a few seconds or minutes. Yeah maybe your car can do 140kmh, 180kmh you cant. New Zealand drivers need to grow up, shut up and just follow the rules and stop being selfish jackasses.

Going around in circles slightly here as is always the case in such debates, but I don't think anyone was proposing that people should be allowed 40 or 80kph over the limit in NZ. But it's not a binary thing, and wanting to drive at a reasonable speed does not make someone a jackass. The point I was trying to make is that if you list all the unsafe things that happen on NZ roads, speeding by 0-10kph is way, way down the list of stuff that makes a difference. So perhaps the cops should focus their efforts on the dangerous stuff, not the easy stuff. And if we really want to make a difference, introduce compulsory insurance so that we can get all the rubbish, modified dangerous old heaps off the road.

floydbloke

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#2560882 9-Sep-2020 12:08

shk292: I guess the thing that would most annoy me about such a move is that it’s just an easy target. Every day I see people using phones while driving, jumping red lights, speeding way in excess of the limit, tail gating, etc. Statistics show that unroadworthy vehicles and failing to wear seatbelts are serious causes of death and injury. And yet the police would effectively be ignoring all of these to target safe drivers in safe vehicles driving at safe speeds.

...and then there's this as well, from today's DomPost.

After I was born, I didn't talk to my parents for two years.

MikeB4

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#2560951 9-Sep-2020 12:33

shk292:

Going around in circles slightly here as is always the case in such debates, but I don't think anyone was proposing that people should be allowed 40 or 80kph over the limit in NZ. But it's not a binary thing, and wanting to drive at a reasonable speed does not make someone a jackass. The point I was trying to make is that if you list all the unsafe things that happen on NZ roads, speeding by 0-10kph is way, way down the list of stuff that makes a difference. So perhaps the cops should focus their efforts on the dangerous stuff, not the easy stuff. And if we really want to make a difference, introduce compulsory insurance so that we can get all the rubbish, modified dangerous old heaps off the road.

The speeds I quoted were intentionally exaggerated. However I hear a lot that folks say my car can easily do 140Kmh (I have such a vehicle) but those figures by makers are in from very controlled environments and not of our poor roads. The main point I was making is that the difference of 110Kmh and 100Kmh over the course of the journey is not worth a life changing life long injury or death. Also speed my not be the the leading cause of road deaths but it sure as hell makes it harder to avoid all the other causes.

The police shouldn't concentrate on speed over other offences and I am sure I have never heard them say that they will. They have said that the leeway that had been given on speed will no longer apply.

I agree with the insurance issue but that will have a far greater affect on low income folks and until our rubbish public and alternative transport is sorted it is unfair to place a greater burden on those that can least afford it.

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