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Bung
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  #2560970 9-Sep-2020 12:49
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I'd like an explanation how compulsory insurance would be any more effective than compulsory WoFs and licensing of drivers and vehicles when there's a solid block out there that don't bother with those details as it is.

shk292
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  #2560993 9-Sep-2020 13:18
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Bung: I'd like an explanation how compulsory insurance would be any more effective than compulsory WoFs and licensing of drivers and vehicles when there's a solid block out there that don't bother with those details as it is.

 

I refer you to my previous argument that police should focus on the things that matter, instead of marginal excess of speed.

 

But, with regards to insurance it's about who can insure what.  Try going to the UK, phone up any insurance company and tell them you're a 21 year old bloke wanting to insure a 15-year old Subaru Impreza WRX.  And when they ask if it has been modified, explain about your lowered suspension, canted wheels, fat exhaust and ECU re-programming.  You'll be giving the agent the best laugh he's had in months.  Quite simply, compulsory insurance stops high-risk drivers from driving high-risk vehicles - unless they go illegal but there's always that option and the police should do their job and stop it.


 
 
 
 


frankv
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  #2561104 9-Sep-2020 15:24
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Bung: I'd like an explanation how compulsory insurance would be any more effective than compulsory WoFs and licensing of drivers and vehicles when there's a solid block out there that don't bother with those details as it is.

 

I don't like the idea of compulsory insurance (despite being insured myself :) )

 

1. This is liable to make motorists commodities to be milked (e.g. ACC under the Key government). There's already socialisation of road accident costs in the form of benefits and free health care... I could see that expanded and the profits privatised.

 

2. I don't like the idea of relying on private companies to manage road safety, even if indirectly. 

 

3. If government washes it's hands of road safety, there's less incentive to make *roads* safer. Ideally, there would be an incentive for the government... if deaths or injuries per 100,000km driven falls, the Crown gets new BMWs. If it rises, they make do with last year's cars.

 

 


MikeB4
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  #2561179 9-Sep-2020 15:54
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frankv:

 

 

 

I don't like the idea of compulsory insurance (despite being insured myself :) )

 

1. This is liable to make motorists commodities to be milked (e.g. ACC under the Key government). There's already socialisation of road accident costs in the form of benefits and free health care... I could see that expanded and the profits privatised.

 

2. I don't like the idea of relying on private companies to manage road safety, even if indirectly. 

 

3. If government washes it's hands of road safety, there's less incentive to make *roads* safer. Ideally, there would be an incentive for the government... if deaths or injuries per 100,000km driven falls, the Crown gets new BMWs. If it rises, they make do with last year's cars.

 

 

 

 

I don't see how compulsory insurance would the government washes their hands of road safety. Has this happened in the UK?

 

 


shk292
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  #2561180 9-Sep-2020 16:01
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MikeB4:

 

I don't see how compulsory insurance would the government washes their hands of road safety. Has this happened in the UK?

 

 

 

 

Not at all - to me it's just another string in the safety bow.  It is an additional cost, granted


firewire
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  #2561885 10-Sep-2020 19:17
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Well

 

I read the other day that people have been speeding because the roads are empty because of lockdown. Where is this allowable in traffic law? Clearly this is just blatant lawlessness so the police are quite justified in enforcing law but don't tell those people that. They'll call it "revenue gathering", "nitpicking".

 

The police could make a killing on other offences such as (in no particular order):

 

Not stopping at a stop sign

 

red light running

 

lights not on 1/2 hour before sunrise/sunset let alone at night

 

not indicating 

 

tailgating

 

see the trend here?

 

The current state of moral ineptitude in western society.

 

 


Technofreak
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  #2561902 10-Sep-2020 20:31
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firewire:

 

Well

 

I read the other day that people have been speeding because the roads are empty because of lockdown. Where is this allowable in traffic law? Clearly this is just blatant lawlessness so the police are quite justified in enforcing law but don't tell those people that. They'll call it "revenue gathering", "nitpicking".

 

The police could make a killing on other offences such as (in no particular order):

 

Not stopping at a stop sign

 

red light running

 

lights not on 1/2 hour before sunrise/sunset let alone at night

 

not indicating 

 

tailgating

 

see the trend here?

 

The current state of moral ineptitude in western society.

 

 

 

 

I think you'll find it's 30 minutes after sunset and 30 minutes before sunrise which is roughly equates to Evening Civil Twilight and Morning Civil Twilight





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firewire
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  #2561919 10-Sep-2020 21:40
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Errr well yes. My bad.

 

Too late to edit it.


Technofreak
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  #2562047 11-Sep-2020 09:39
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If my experience over the last three days is anything to go by, nothing has changed.





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Bung
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  #2562053 11-Sep-2020 09:54
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You have to take one for the team, find camera van then drive back and forth raising speed 1km at a time and report back which passes resulted in a ticket 😊

Technofreak
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  #2562077 11-Sep-2020 10:31
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Bung: You have to take one for the team, find camera van then drive back and forth raising speed 1km at a time and report back which passes resulted in a ticket 😊

 

I assume your post was in reply to mine.

 

Plenty of others out there testing the water so to speak. There was no need for me to be doing any back and forth.





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elpenguino
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  #2562085 11-Sep-2020 10:38
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firewire:

 

Well

 

I read the other day that people have been speeding because the roads are empty because of lockdown. Where is this allowable in traffic law? Clearly this is just blatant lawlessness so the police are quite justified in enforcing law but don't tell those people that. They'll call it "revenue gathering", "nitpicking".

 

The police could make a killing on other offences such as (in no particular order):

 

Not stopping at a stop sign

 

red light running

 

 

Red light running being the more serious problem of these. I asked a cop about policing of stop signs and he said where there's a problem with non-compliance the cops prefer to talk to the council about converting the intersection to a give way.

 

Talk about biting the revenue-gathering hand that feeds you.

 

If it was simple revenue the police were after, they could just wait till dusk and stop the twits that drive with their fog lights on when it's not foggy.

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right/#:~:text=Fog%20lamps%20should%20only%20be,can%20dazzle%20other%20road%20users.

 

At 10-20% of road users , they would be raking it in.


Dratsab
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  #2562902 12-Sep-2020 14:26
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elpenguino:

 

Red light running being the more serious problem of these. I asked a cop about policing of stop signs and he said where there's a problem with non-compliance the cops prefer to talk to the council about converting the intersection to a give way.

 

Talk about biting the revenue-gathering hand that feeds you. 

 

I'm not sure why this myth persists despite it having been explained many, many times in dozens of similar threads on this forum. Money from fines goes into the consolidated fund and does not impact on the fixed amount of money allocated to police when Government announce their budget.

 

The other myth is about quotas. There are none. Police are free to issue as many tickets as they like. To those who continually insist on bringing it up...

 

You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means |  Know Your Meme

 

In respect of the Montana Paradox which was brought up a little earlier: A few years back I had an opportunity to raise this with a senior person at PNHQ who helps set traffic enforcement policy, so I did. They instantly dismissed it with a statement along the lines of Montana having had an incredibly high crash rate to start with thus the results were simply an anomaly. There was no attempt to explain or rationalise this thinking or provide information/links rebutting what happened there, just the instant dismissal.


firewire
93 posts

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  #2571584 21-Sep-2020 22:34
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Red light running being the more serious problem of these. I asked a cop about policing of stop signs and he said where there's a problem with non-compliance the cops prefer to talk to the council about converting the intersection to a give way.

 

Talk about biting the revenue-gathering hand that feeds you.

 

If it was simple revenue the police were after, they could just wait till dusk and stop the twits that drive with their fog lights on when it's not foggy.

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right/#:~:text=Fog%20lamps%20should%20only%20be,can%20dazzle%20other%20road%20users.

 

At 10-20% of road users , they would be raking it in.

 

I suspect it's about the same. People don't seem to like stopping when required to and just want to keep on moving.

 

Surprised about the fog lights. I see a few without any lights on. They seem oblivious to it.


1101
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  #2571811 22-Sep-2020 10:02
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Dratsab:

 

The other myth is about quotas. There are none. Police are free to issue as many tickets as they like. To those who continually insist on bringing it up...

 

 

Open your eyes. Ex cops have admitted this happens.
They dont officaially call it a 'quota' , but its the same thing . "general enforcement targets" 
Cops on traffic duties DO have targets they are expected to meet .

 

2006 , yes long ago, but it shows this is a real thing . They try to hide it .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10389464
"Police are being accused of having a ticket quota after a leaked Central District Highway Tasking Sheet called on officers to get its ticket count up. "

 

2017 whats this then ?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/12/waikato-police-no-longer-assessed-on-ticket-quota.html
"Waikato police will no longer assess patrol officers on how many tickets they issue, in an effort to rein in unnecessary fines."

 

 


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