Clean car package

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Clean car package

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1778 posts

Uber Geek

#2728579 14-Jun-2021 16:30

For vehicle financing, I would expect finance companies to build in a balloon payment to the equivalent of the expected rebate if they are financing 100% of the purchase price, similar now to a "GST Clawback" they do on commercial hire purchase / loan contracts. i don't think this can apply to leasing so it could end up just being a cash windfall to the lessee (they are afterall the "registered owners"), but I would expect that residual values will be written down significantly reflecting the value of the rebate (which may actually push lease prices up) on real world vehicle values.

This will be a good move for new entrants to the EV market, but those who already own one have just seen the value of their vehicle drop markedly..

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CYaBro

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#2728592 14-Jun-2021 16:47

sen8or:

This will be a good move for new entrants to the EV market, but those who already own one have just seen the value of their vehicle drop markedly..

Which is no different for early adopters of any technology really.

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Dingbatt

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#2728615 14-Jun-2021 17:33

As I’ve already commented in the EV News thread, my biggest bugbear with this feebate scheme is the $80K limit. It smacks of envy politics because any EV must improve things right? Whether it’s a $8000 Leaf with 70% SoC in its small battery or $US3.6 million Aspark Owl (world’s most expensive EV according to greenauthority.com) it would still only get the same rebate paid out of the levy on high emissions vehicles (so no impact on taxpayers). So why the arbitrary limit? People who shell out $100K+ for an EV are already contributing more by way of GST and, dare I say it, income tax.

Edit: Had to change word back to ‘feebate’ which had been autocorrected to ‘feeble’ .

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Dingbatt

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#2728617 14-Jun-2021 17:39

CYaBro:

sen8or:

This will be a good move for new entrants to the EV market, but those who already own one have just seen the value of their vehicle drop markedly..

Which is no different for early adopters of any technology really.

Unless you just bought a gas guzzler, in which case its value will go up.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Delorean

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#2728703 14-Jun-2021 19:53

Climate change is one of the most significant challenges facing the world today.

However, solving the climate issue isn’t as simple as launching a fleet of electric or hybrid-based vehicles. Particularly when two-thirds of the world’s electricity is still generated by fossil fuels.

We should be focussing on the bigger picture and not just providing rebates on these classes of vehicles

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eracode

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#2728867 15-Jun-2021 03:28

As pointed out by some media commentators, it’s totally misleading and disingenuous for the government to talk about a ‘fee’ on the bad cars. It’s a tax. A fee is paid in respect of a service rendered - there’s no service being provided here.

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Dingbatt

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#2728897 15-Jun-2021 08:09

Lip service?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

sen8or

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Uber Geek

#2728987 15-Jun-2021 10:29

CYaBro:

sen8or:

This will be a good move for new entrants to the EV market, but those who already own one have just seen the value of their vehicle drop markedly..

Which is no different for early adopters of any technology really.

Except this isn't through market influences like supply and demand or natural maturity of a technology, this is through Govt intervention manipulating the market to suit a political and/or environmental need.

sen8or

1778 posts

Uber Geek

#2728991 15-Jun-2021 10:36

Delorean:

Climate change is one of the most significant challenges facing the world today.

However, solving the climate issue isn’t as simple as launching a fleet of electric or hybrid-based vehicles. Particularly when two-thirds of the world’s electricity is still generated by fossil fuels.

We should be focussing on the bigger picture and not just providing rebates on these classes of vehicles

If the Govt was focussed on "the bigger picture", then tackling both China and the US on their emissions would yield significantly faster results for climate change than pretty much anything we can do in NZ when our annual emissions make up just 0.1% of the world (https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/new-zealand) lets perhaps keep things in perspective about what actual impact NZ can have. I'm not advocating doing nothing and each little bit helps, but until the worlds largest producers actually pull finger, its like expecting one person to fill up an olympic swimming pool by peeing in it.

Scott3

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#2729133 15-Jun-2021 14:44

eracode:

As pointed out by some media commentators, it’s totally misleading and disingenuous for the government to talk about a ‘fee’ on the bad cars. It’s a tax. A fee is paid in respect of a service rendered - there’s no service being provided here.

The service is providing a registration for the vehicle that allows it to be used on public roads. My understanding is the [whatever you want to call it] is not charged if it is not road registered. (i.e. farm / industrial estate site vehicle etc.)

I find the debate over the the word used a bit stupid. Everybody knows that whatever word is used it is a cost that somebody buying a new v8 nissan patrol (for on road use) will need to pay. Bloggers are just trying to win political points over the "No new taxes" thing.

tdgeek

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#2729147 15-Jun-2021 15:24

eracode:

As pointed out by some media commentators, it’s totally misleading and disingenuous for the government to talk about a ‘fee’ on the bad cars. It’s a tax. A fee is paid in respect of a service rendered - there’s no service being provided here.

Technically I agree, but its revenue neutral, the service rendered to you is moving to a better and healthier world. Taxes are mainly used as income for Governments, this tax or fee or whatever isn't Government income, its a tool used to shepherd silly people to a better healthier lifestyle, somemthing that we cannot seem to do ourselves. Buggy/carrot/donkey is the short version

Obraik

2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2729149 15-Jun-2021 15:27

Delorean:

Climate change is one of the most significant challenges facing the world today.

However, solving the climate issue isn’t as simple as launching a fleet of electric or hybrid-based vehicles. Particularly when two-thirds of the world’s electricity is still generated by fossil fuels.

We should be focussing on the bigger picture and not just providing rebates on these classes of vehicles

Obviously the ultimate goal is to get Public Transport to the point that the majority of those living in the cities can and want to use it. However, since our cities ripped out and built over our previously established public transport lines with the rise of the personal vehicle it's now going to take decades to get us back to that point. It will involve land buybacks and tunnelling to get it to where it needs to be in cities like Auckland and Wellington. In the mean time, people are still driving around with vehicles that pump out emissions and keeping transport as one of the largest contributors to climate change.

So, we have to do something to bring down those transport emissions. Subsidies on EVs have shown to be very successful in getting people to make the switch.

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mattwnz

20096 posts

Uber Geek

#2729152 15-Jun-2021 15:30

eracode:

As pointed out by some media commentators, it’s totally misleading and disingenuous for the government to talk about a ‘fee’ on the bad cars. It’s a tax. A fee is paid in respect of a service rendered - there’s no service being provided here.

And they promised no new taxes....If they can introduce this tax / levy / fee, or whatever it is names, IMO they can introduce taxes on housing to try and fix the housing crisis. That money could then be be used to build houses and subsidise them for FHBs, which is similar to what Kiwibuild is, but Kiwibuild never built enough or in the right places and I don't think the government put money into it from existing house and land taxes. So it would be a similar thing to what they are doing with this new levy on new gas cars, it goes to subsidse new EVs. Personally I think they should have made the levy for cars under 65k or even lower, so it excluded some of the luxury cars like the model 3. I understand Tesla are likely to introduce a cheaper EV at some stage i the near future (model 2?), more designed for average car owners.

mattwnz

20096 posts

Uber Geek

#2729155 15-Jun-2021 15:38

Obraik:

Delorean:

Climate change is one of the most significant challenges facing the world today.

However, solving the climate issue isn’t as simple as launching a fleet of electric or hybrid-based vehicles. Particularly when two-thirds of the world’s electricity is still generated by fossil fuels.

We should be focussing on the bigger picture and not just providing rebates on these classes of vehicles

Obviously the ultimate goal is to get Public Transport to the point that the majority of those living in the cities can and want to use it. However, since our cities ripped out and built over our previously established public transport lines with the rise of the personal vehicle it's now going to take decades to get us back to that point. It will involve land buybacks and tunnelling to get it to where it needs to be in cities like Auckland and Wellington. In the mean time, people are still driving around with vehicles that pump out emissions and keeping transport as one of the largest contributors to climate change.

So, we have to do something to bring down those transport emissions. Subsidies on EVs have shown to be very successful in getting people to make the switch.

Very difficult when there was no planning in most areas. eg corridors for rail or mass transit. Our new suburbs are often winding messes of streets with no framework.

Obraik

2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2729156 15-Jun-2021 15:39

Yes, you've reiterated why public transport isn't a quick fix to our transport emissions.

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