Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
Affiliate link
 
 
 

Affiliate link: Find your next Lenovo laptop, desktop, workstation or tablet now.
cokemaster

Exited
4493 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2734130 25-Jun-2021 10:23
Send private message

The dealership have escalated it to Mitsubishi NZ as they feel the levels were lower than expected. I will be pushing both for a resolution.

Depending on the outcome of this - my next car may very well be a diesel, particularly if the range drops to 50% within 5 years.




webhosting

Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


Dairyxox
1590 posts

Uber Geek


  #2734135 25-Jun-2021 10:28
Send private message

Sounds like quite a lot of cycles. Do you have an actual charge cycle count from the battery diagnostics?

 

I wouldn't expect 80% pure EV use to be typical for a hybrid like this.

 

 


cokemaster

Exited
4493 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2734137 25-Jun-2021 10:38
Send private message

I’ll check when I get home - I’ve got the raw dump from the battery management system. It’s been a daily commuter so the lion share has been done within EV range.
I also have a Prius V that’s rolled over to 100k km - it’s milage is pretty much the same as when we brought it (although quite a different system/technology).




webhosting

Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!




Batman
Mad Scientist
27796 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2734149 25-Jun-2021 10:53
Send private message

Dairyxox:

Sounds like quite a lot of cycles. Do you have an actual charge cycle count from the battery diagnostics?


I wouldn't expect 80% pure EV use to be typical for a hybrid like this.


 



Because with small battery of the hybrid it will charge and discharge all the time

This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from hybrids but not the only reason




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


heapsort
214 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2734221 25-Jun-2021 11:37
Send private message

Batman:
Dairyxox:

 

Sounds like quite a lot of cycles. Do you have an actual charge cycle count from the battery diagnostics?

 

 

 

I wouldn't expect 80% pure EV use to be typical for a hybrid like this.

 

 

 

 

 



Because with small battery of the hybrid it will charge and discharge all the time

This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from hybrids but not the only reason

 

I think there is a very large range of "typical" for a hybrid, and 80% EV use is well within that range.

 

Someone could drive an Outlander PHEV as a non-plugin HEV without ever bothering to plug it in, and use around 5.5 to 6 L/100km of petrol in city driving, which is still quite a lot better than a non-hybrid Outlander would achieve. At the other extreme, never making long trips and always charging, the petrol used would be under 0.5 L/100km but the battery would degrade faster. (Avoiding any petrol at all is impractical: the car turns on the engine as needed to enforce a minimum of 15 litres added to the tank every 90 days, primarily to avoid fuel going stale.) I'm somewhere in between these two scenarios, currently at 1.2 L/100km over 3.5 years of use.

 

I agree the small battery is a major negative for hybrids. I knew of that when buying one, but I knew what my typical use between full charges would be, kept my expectations realistic (e.g. staying over 25-30 km range and under 1.5 L/100km as long as possible, hopefully several years), and so far it has met them.


Scott3
2781 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2734285 25-Jun-2021 13:32
Send private message

I would say it is unreasonable, and would fail the test of "Acceptable quality" under the consumer guarantees act.

 

I would be trying my luck through relevant court / tribunal if Mitsubishi don't come to the party with a remedy.

 

 

 

You paid a substantial amount for the vehicle (Prior to the late 2018 price cuts these car weren't cheap - $67,990 for the VRX), This was a massive premium over the base petrol out lander (Cira $32k), and it is reasonable to expect it to last for a decent amount of time.

 

This is a two part issues:

 

1.

 

How long is it reasonable for the traction battery in your PHEV to last. I don't think anybody will be arguing that 4 years / 80,000km is acceptable life. Key points here:

 

2.

 

Is 65% an acceptable level of deterioration? Mitsubishi may argue the yes it is fine, and your vehicle still operates as when your purchased, abet with reduced electric range. I disagree for the following reasons:

 

  • 70% is the most common warrenty threshold in the EV space. - Used by the nissan leaf.
  • At 65% health, your EV range will be quite substantially reduced from what was advertised to you are a new car. - Fair argument that if the car isn't delivering on what you would expect as a reasonable consumer.
  • Decay trend (if linear) don't suggest the battery will come close to lasting the life of the vehicle.
  • There are reports of 2.0 Outlander PHEV's with degraded batteries that don't have enough capacity to buffer the difference between engine output and motor output on demanding roads like Napier to taupo.

Hopefully Mitsubishi come to the party and put a new traction pack in your car... Poorly engineered traction packs that degrade quickly reflect poorly on their brand, and EV's as a whole

 

 

 

 

 

Batman:

 


Because with small battery of the hybrid it will charge and discharge all the time

This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from hybrids but not the only reason

 

 

 

This is something that can be engineered around. Other hybrids, both plug in and non plug in have battery life roughly similar to the whole vehicle life.

 

I have a Lexus hybrid in the driveway. 15 years old, past 200,000km and still going fine on what I assume is the original pack. An example of a PHEV with good traction battery life is the GM / Holden / Chevy volt:

 

https://insideevs.com/news/334835/this-chevy-volt-has-400000-miles-on-odometer-with-no-noticeable-battery-degradation/

 

The main advantage PHEV's have with regards to battery health is that there is no real need to stress the battery. Consumers only expect around 50km of range, so it is relatively easy to oversize the battery, and only used the less harmfull middle of the pack (say 30% to 70%).

 

And of course, unlike a full EV, there is not need to run the battery pack very low if the driver only just makes it home - Just run the engine. If the battery pack is in a harmful temperature range, again run the engine to take work off the battery... All this done at engineering rather than consumer level.


Batman
Mad Scientist
27796 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2734486 25-Jun-2021 14:42
Send private message

When I called apple about my battery they laughed at me :(

They sais does the iPhone work? Yes. End of story.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




mattwnz
18653 posts

Uber Geek


  #2734621 25-Jun-2021 17:12
Send private message

Batman:
Dairyxox:

 

Sounds like quite a lot of cycles. Do you have an actual charge cycle count from the battery diagnostics?

 

 

 

I wouldn't expect 80% pure EV use to be typical for a hybrid like this.

 

 

 

 

 



Because with small battery of the hybrid it will charge and discharge all the time

This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from hybrids but not the only reason

 

 

 

Apparently the batteries in hybrids aren't that difficult to replace. Seen several youtube videos with people doing it to save money.


Scott3
2781 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2734672 25-Jun-2021 19:58
Send private message

Batman: When I called apple about my battery they laughed at me :(

They sais does the iPhone work? Yes. End of story.

 

Firstly apple doesn't have a great reputation for following NZ consumer law. They were formally warned by the commerce commission back in 2008, as we get stuff like this popping up now and then:

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=76&topicid=283919

 

 

 

Secondly phones and car's aren't directly comparable. Cars are much more expensive, and expected to last at least three times as long. In the case of plug in hybrid cars, the main reason people pay tens of thousands of dollars more for them over the equivalent non plug in is because they have the ability to do xx km using the petrol engine minimally.

 

And of course the option of throwing a cheap power bank into your bag isn't viable for a car.


gzt

gzt
13596 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2734820 25-Jun-2021 22:35
Send private message

Batman: Because with small battery of the hybrid it will charge and discharge all the time

This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from hybrids but not the only reason

This is a PHEV not exactly a hybrid HEV. In practice hybrids are extremely reliable well developed tech and battery life is just not an issue. The other thing is battery tech is improving all the time. I'd prefer to stick to the topic and not see any more of these side tracks.

gzt

gzt
13596 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2734821 25-Jun-2021 22:39
Send private message

cokemaster: The dealership have escalated it to Mitsubishi NZ as they feel the levels were lower than expected. I will be pushing both for a resolution.

Sounds like there's some potential for a very good trade-in deal to be offered on the latest if your luck holds all the way.

cokemaster

Exited
4493 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2734825 25-Jun-2021 23:54
Send private message

They've offered $30K trade-in towards the purchase of a new Outlander PHEV as part of a promo a few months ago. I was tempted but ultimately declined. 

 

$30K was bang on what the valuation said for an Outlander PHEV of that mileage and age, so possibly wasn't a bad trade in offer but at the same time wasn't something to get out of bed over.





webhosting

Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


tdgeek
26309 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2734858 26-Jun-2021 08:46
Send private message

gzt: In practice hybrids are extremely reliable well developed tech and battery life is just not an issue.

 

I thought batteries decline with cycles. If you cycle a PHEV battery once per day for the 50km range, that's a lot compared to a full EV cycling it once every 250+km. So yes, the batteries are no different to a full EV battery but the use case is. If I bought a PHEV so I can almost always avoid FF use, save money, my range appears that it will drop off quite a lot


Batman
Mad Scientist
27796 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2734868 26-Jun-2021 09:37
Send private message

gzt:
Batman: Because with small battery of the hybrid it will charge and discharge all the time

This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from hybrids but not the only reason

This is a PHEV not exactly a hybrid HEV. In practice hybrids are extremely reliable well developed tech and battery life is just not an issue. The other thing is battery tech is improving all the time. I'd prefer to stick to the topic and not see any more of these side tracks.


I don't think you understand how batteries work. If you buy a car with batteries get one with the longest battery warranty you can




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


lchiu7
5754 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2735273 27-Jun-2021 10:36
Send private message

This thread now makes me a bit wary of buying a Mitsubishi Exclipse PHEV.  My thought was, since it would be used for at most 30-40km each day (city driving), the amount of petrol used would be minimal and we could just just it each night (or second night).  I would hope that I would not drop down to 65% battery in such a relatively short time. But saying that a 2021 model with the latest battery technology might do better than the older Outlander.





Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/rooms/32019730  Mention GZ to get a 10% discount

 

System One:  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Intel NUC (C2D) (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Odroid C2 running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Samsung Q80 Atmos soundbar. Google Chromecast, Google Chromecast TV

System Two: Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen, Denon AVRS730H 7.2 Channel Dolby Atmos/DTS-X AV Receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast, Odroid C2 running Kodi and Plex

 

 


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

D-Link G415 4G Smart Router Review
Posted 27-Jun-2022 17:24


New Zealand Video Game Sales Reaches $540 Million
Posted 26-Jun-2022 14:49


Github Copilot Generally Available to All Developers
Posted 26-Jun-2022 14:37


Logitech G Introduces the New Astro A10 Headset
Posted 26-Jun-2022 14:20


Fitbit introduces Sleep Profiles
Posted 26-Jun-2022 14:11


Synology Introduces FlashStation FS3410
Posted 26-Jun-2022 14:04


Intel Arc A380 Graphics First Available in China
Posted 15-Jun-2022 17:08


JBL Introduces PartyBox Encore Essential Speaker
Posted 15-Jun-2022 17:05


New TVNZ+ streaming brand launches
Posted 13-Jun-2022 08:35


Chromecast With Google TV Review
Posted 10-Jun-2022 17:10


Xbox Gaming on Your Samsung Smart TV No Console Required
Posted 10-Jun-2022 00:01


Xbox Cloud Gaming Now Available in New Zealand
Posted 10-Jun-2022 00:01


HP Envy Inspire 7900e Review
Posted 9-Jun-2022 20:31


Philips Hue Starter Kit Review
Posted 4-Jun-2022 11:10


Sony Expands Its Wireless Speaker X-series Range
Posted 4-Jun-2022 10:25









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.