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cokemaster

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  #2739946 6-Jul-2021 20:30
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I have written an email to the dealer principal outlining what has happened to date, some analysis based off battery degradation and expectations of a resolution under the consumer guarantees act.

I will give them a reasonable period of time to digest this. I will make the car available to them if required.
If a resolution is not forthcoming or I get radio silence, the motor vehicle tribunal is the next step.

As always, will keep the team in the loop.




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  #2740185 6-Jul-2021 21:58
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Dealer principal has written back within a hour of receiving the email, has indicated that he will look into it and requires a few days to form an opinion. 

 

Happy to give them the time so we'll see what happens from here...





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RobDickinson
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  #2740339 7-Jul-2021 09:19
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Boeingflyer: What a bunch of twats. The funny thing is that I was pretty close to buying an outlander a few weeks back and just got busy. Then I saw this post and I won't even give it another thought, even with their 2021 model which may be better and have a better warranty but the way they have treated you - no way.

It may only be one sale to them but it's one less and more money going into another car dealers pocket (mmm Tesla, ha ha).


I had a 2014 import for a couple years,  must have got lucky it was on 94% soh when I got it , drove it mostly on ev, ended up on 82%, but its the same pack/tech as the iMiev really and still the same, and the same pack in the new eclipse phev too.

 


Its bad tech from a 2009 car thats not really been updated. I wont be buying Mitsubishi again, which is sad because ignoring that the outlander was a decent car.




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  #2740386 7-Jul-2021 09:56
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This thread has definitely ensured the Outlander’s off my list of potential purchases for next car; it’s a pity, though, that the list of similarly-sized (and subsidy-ready) PHEVs is pretty small.

The new Sportage will be available in PHEV guise at some point (and with that new design language it actually looks like a car I’d be happy to buy, unlike the current model) but it doesn’t look like it will arrive here for a while (assume it’s the same for the new Tucson.) Even if we do get the RAV4 Prime, I doubt that will come in under $80k.

That said, I’m now slightly worried by the longevity of the battery in PHEVs more generally, given what I’ve read above. I wouldn’t have thought the experience with a standard hybrid system is directly comparable with a PHEV system, given the latter may operate in BEV mode for much of its life, whereas (for most driving) it only plays a supporting part in the former. What evidence is there about battery degradation in other PHEVs?


RobDickinson
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  #2740388 7-Jul-2021 09:59
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Standard hybrids have different battery setups.

The Mitsubishi setup should be fine, under volted, used through the sweet spot, the cells they use are pretty solid for lots of cycles too. 

None of that helps when the BMU firmware is bullshit, non upgradable and they wont or dont know how to fix it


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  #2741915 9-Jul-2021 17:00
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I’ve had an awesome update from Consumers head of testing which puts further fuel on the fire.
More worryingly, his advice suggests that the battery is more likely to fail.

I’ll post some of it later on when I’m home.

I haven’t had any update from the Dealer principal but will check in with him next week.

Guys - the consumer is awesome!




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mattwnz
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  #2741934 9-Jul-2021 17:30
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cokemaster: I’ve had an awesome update from Consumers head of testing which puts further fuel on the fire.
More worryingly, his advice suggests that the battery is more likely to fail.

I’ll post some of it later on when I’m home.

I haven’t had any update from the Dealer principal but will check in with him next week.

Guys - the consumer is awesome!

 

 

 

I thought consumer would be useful, because it is the type of story they probably would want to get involved with due to EVs being a popular topic at the moment.




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  #2741975 9-Jul-2021 19:12
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So the takeaways from the SME at Consumer:

* The battery should be replaced free of charge.
* Most new EV’s and PHEV’s are now giving warranties of 8 years.
* None of these warranties state what acceptable capacity looks like. Regardless,
* 4 years down to 65/68% is a strong case for enforcement under the CGA.
* The battery is on its last legs and expectation is that it will degrade even faster to the point of not being able to charge at all.




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heapsort
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  #2742649 11-Jul-2021 19:33
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cokemaster: So the takeaways from the SME at Consumer:

* The battery should be replaced free of charge.
* Most new EV’s and PHEV’s are now giving warranties of 8 years.
* None of these warranties state what acceptable capacity looks like. Regardless,
* 4 years down to 65/68% is a strong case for enforcement under the CGA.
* The battery is on its last legs and expectation is that it will degrade even faster to the point of not being able to charge at all.

 

I think these are all valid points, except for the last one. It might well be true for a battery with that capacity % result in any other EV/PHEV on the market, but the unreliability of how the Outlander PHEV estimates battery capacity (aka state of health or SOH) makes it almost impossible to predict what will happen from here. Your battery might indeed degrade faster, but it could just as easily stay above 60% for years.

 

SOH is not a strictly decreasing curve on this car. It can go up over time, and altering charging habits can increase the chance this will happen. The typical "fast at first, then flattening out" degradation curve that all EV batteries exhibit is also extreme for the Outlander. Here are my 5% SOH milestones for example: 95% at 500 km; 90% at 3000 km; 85% at 7000 km; 80% at 16,000 km; 75% ... still not yet reached at 44,000 km.


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  #2742706 11-Jul-2021 20:05
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Understood.

At the moment ball is still in the dealers hands on what action they’re going to take. If I don’t get an update by this Thursday or if they decline to replace the battery… I will be rejecting the car and returning it this Saturday.

I am hopeful for a positive resolution however.




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Batman
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  #2742714 11-Jul-2021 20:18
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all the best keep us posted





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


RobDickinson
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  #2742899 12-Jul-2021 10:34
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Good luck.

IMO Mitsubishi know this is a mess but wont ever back down on it because it leaves them open to a lot of expense.


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  #2743666 13-Jul-2021 14:27
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Dealer principal contacted to inform that this has been escalated to senior Mitsubishi Motors NZ folks and also an electrical engineer. Meeting being held this afternoon with the intention of a resolution being advised by the end of the week.

So far - am impressed with Dealer principle keeping me in the loop.





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Scott3
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  #2743689 13-Jul-2021 15:29
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cokemaster: Dealer principal contacted to inform that this has been escalated to senior Mitsubishi Motors NZ folks and also an electrical engineer. Meeting being held this afternoon with the intention of a resolution being advised by the end of the week.

So far - am impressed with Dealer principle keeping me in the loop.

 

The fact that they are willing to keep escalating suggests some of the following;

 

  • They have decided that you are serious about claiming your rights under the CGA, and aren't giving up because the manufacture isn't coming to the party.
  • They think there is a decent chance you could win your action under the CGA.
  • They are concerned about Image & brand reputation damage. (regardless of CGA outcome).

Public interest in EV's is high at the moment due to the clean car standard, and Mitsubishi has just launched a second PHEV offering, largely sharing the drivetrain of the out-lander PHEV.


RobDickinson
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  #2743694 13-Jul-2021 15:39
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They have made this difficult for everyone with issues, and drag it on for months, the OZ guy I know ended up with a replacement battery and his SOH on that started to crater even worse. So sold and bought a model 3.


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