Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

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18435 posts

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#2832816 15-Dec-2021 12:45

Batman:

the concept here is that megacities are built because of economic centralization. everybody must have all their HQ in one place, economy all happen in one city.

Yep the push north is coming back to bite us.

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rjh

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#2832820 15-Dec-2021 12:50

frankv:

MikeB4:

Be it battery EV, hydrogen EV or Fred Flinstone power we are still clinging to the concept of the motor vehicle being the primary item in mass transport. We need to change that mindset. As the population density of our cities and suburban areas increases considerably over the next decade or so the use of motor vehicles becomes increasing unsustainable and pointless. An example in Te Awakairangi, the density increase is only just starting and our roads are already becoming overcrowded and as building continues this is only going to worsen. The more the urban roads clog the worse the arterial roads clog and building bigger arterial roads will not solve that issue. In Aotearoa we need to shift our thinking from motor vehicles to alternative personal transport. An increasing number of young persons are already recognising this and not buying motor vehicles or getting a drivers license.

...

How do Te Awakairangi residents (or indeed pretty much everyone except surf beach residents) have Saturday at the beach without a car? According to Google Maps... Lug chillibin, umbrella, surfboards, towels to the bus stop, bus to Wellington... lug chillibin etc to the railway platform, half-hour wait, train to Paraparaumu, lug chillibin etc to the bus stop, 20 minute wait, bus to near beach, lug chillibin etc to the beach. 2 hours 22 minutes plus, so pretty much the morning is gone if you catch the 9:20am bus. Hope you don't miss that first bus or you lose another hour. Same rigmarole in reverse to get home again.

Like it or not, you can't participate in much of NZ's lifestyle without a car.

What rubbish. Why not just cycle round here to Eastbourne - forget the chillybin, we have quite good shops here, and you can even use the beach outside our place, we won't mind :-)

I sold a toilet pan and ceramic cistern on Trademe a couple of years ago. An elderly woman, and her even more elderly dad traveled by bus from Newtown, packed everything up onto a suitcase trolley and a separate suitcase, and took it all by bus, back to Newtown. Some people, who have no choice, just get on and do things.

In our own case, we didn't fill our car up between the end of July and a week into December. Adjust your lifestyle, you do not need permanent access to a car. Maybe we should have community shared vehicles, older cars are cheap enough.

rjh

57 posts

Master Geek

#2832822 15-Dec-2021 12:57

RobDickinson:

Its certainly a balance thats wrong to sit in your own passenger car at 1km/hr and for this to be more acceptable that any other option.

Just really demonstrates public transport isnt good enough

Public transport should be free for everybody. Fund it out of climate change funding, or congestion tax, instead of building more roads.

We have friends who as a couple, each drive their cars every day - about 30k each, every year. That is a hell of a lot of hours (>1,000 hours each) just sitting in a seat doing exactly nothing useful. yet so few people view it this way. Bit like mowing the lawn, I guess.

RobDickinson

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#2832824 15-Dec-2021 13:01

yeah I would go for state funded public transport paid for via carbon tax or something.

1101

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#2832832 15-Dec-2021 13:22

frankv:

Our problem is that our population density is too low. Without multi-storey apartment blocks, we don't have enough people close enough together to make public transport economically feasible as a *preferred* mode of transport. Without population density, there will never be buses (let alone trains) often enough that you don't become a slave to their timetable.

This. Yes.
When my car is in the garage being fixed , I catch the bus.
The bus would be near empty for the last portion of the trip .
Local Buses are often near empty, except in peak hours . That isnt sustainable long term .

Add to that , because Ak is so spread out, its not uncommon for the nearest bus stop to be 1/2 hour or more away from where you work or live.
Who is going to take a bus & walk the remaining 1/2-1 hour , in the rain ?

Where I used to work, it was a 3/4 hour walk from the bus stop .
Just the way it is in Ak. Thats not a viable option for most .
Not everyone lives or works near bus stops .

MikeAqua

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#2832837 15-Dec-2021 13:29

RobDickinson:

MikeB4:

Work from home and work local should also be high on the planning agendas.

A great idea that wont work unless there are strong incentives/penalties for companies.

In my current role I do a mix of WFH and office. I don't think you get the same barometer for how people are doing (moral, wellbeing etc) remotely. There is no substitute for being near a person for a couple of days to pikc up on those non-verbal cues and get an idea where they are at.

Mike

RobDickinson

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#2832842 15-Dec-2021 13:35

Potentially, though that really depends on what communications you have setup etc.

TBH I have near no interaction with my boss whilst I am at work...

MikeAqua

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#2832843 15-Dec-2021 13:36

frankv:

Our problem is that our population density is too low. Without multi-storey apartment blocks, we don't have enough people close enough together to make public transport economically feasible as a *preferred* mode of transport. Without population density, there will never be buses (let alone trains) often enough that you don't become a slave to their timetable.

Agree. I wonder if this is the future of our city centres and maybe even some town centres. Less office and retail, more apartments and more hospitality/entertainment.

I could live in Welly CBD in a good apartment. I could do the same in the Wynyard quarter (although I could never afford it).

Mike

MikeB4

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#2832844 15-Dec-2021 13:36

In our business we have decided not to have offices. Work from home is how it is going to be and we have made arrangements with customers to share meeting rooms. My sons partner(London based) works for a company that operate the same, they meet once a week for a general meeting a catch up. In our case it saves a lot of money and we don't have staff stuck in traffic or trains not working.

MikeAqua

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#2832864 15-Dec-2021 14:18

I think it depends on the business. We find it helpful to be able to get into a room in front of a white board/chart for problem solving. I've yet to find an online system that does this as well as in person.

Mike

frankv

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#2832890 15-Dec-2021 15:15

rjh:

frankv:

How do Te Awakairangi residents (or indeed pretty much everyone except surf beach residents) have Saturday at the beach without a car? According to Google Maps... Lug chillibin, umbrella, surfboards, towels to the bus stop, bus to Wellington... lug chillibin etc to the railway platform, half-hour wait, train to Paraparaumu, lug chillibin etc to the bus stop, 20 minute wait, bus to near beach, lug chillibin etc to the beach. 2 hours 22 minutes plus, so pretty much the morning is gone if you catch the 9:20am bus. Hope you don't miss that first bus or you lose another hour. Same rigmarole in reverse to get home again.

Like it or not, you can't participate in much of NZ's lifestyle without a car.

What rubbish. Why not just cycle round here to Eastbourne - forget the chillybin, we have quite good shops here, and you can even use the beach outside our place, we won't mind :-)

Ummm... because Eastbourne doesn't have a surf beach???? :rolleyes:

rjh

57 posts

Master Geek

#2832961 15-Dec-2021 16:03

frankv:

Ummm... because Eastbourne doesn't have a surf beach???? :rolleyes:

While Paraparaumu might be better for surfcasting, there is surfing round here. Plenty of guys ride their bikes and boards down the coast road. If you want real surf you are probably going to Island Bay anyway...

Zeon

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#2832963 15-Dec-2021 16:11

Coming back to the topic at hand, it seems to me that battery is not viable compared to a gaseous or liquid fuel for vehicles/machinery that have very high utilisation time. For example, during a harvest you have a narrow window to get the combine harvester across all the fields so could work day and night. With liquid fuels like petroleum there is practically no downtime as the tank can accept the fuels as quickly as you can get it in there.

This doesn't seem possible with a battery vehicle.

Or a bus that runs 17 hours straight per day.

Is Hydrogen not a valid fuel if you want to "decorbonise" and not use petroleum fuels?

Speedtest 2019-10-14

RobDickinson

1516 posts

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#2832965 15-Dec-2021 16:21

Mobile filling 700bar hydrogen isnt going to be a trivial thing.

We already have entire cities using battery electric busses.

rjh

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Master Geek

#2832969 15-Dec-2021 16:29

Zeon:

Coming back to the topic at hand, it seems to me that battery is not viable compared to a gaseous or liquid fuel for vehicles/machinery that have very high utilisation time. For example, during a harvest you have a narrow window to get the combine harvester across all the fields so could work day and night. With liquid fuels like petroleum there is practically no downtime as the tank can accept the fuels as quickly as you can get it in there.

This doesn't seem possible with a battery vehicle.

Or a bus that runs 17 hours straight per day.

...

You aren't thinking outside the box. In Europe there is a trial of a stretch of motorway with overhead power. Trucks with pantographs can pick up power from this and recharge while moving.

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