Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | ... | 18

1516 posts

Uber Geek

#2833275 16-Dec-2021 09:55

MikeAqua:

The exhaust from hydrogen is water. What's the exhaust from a lithium battery fire?

oooh yes a fully balanced statement here lol

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung (affiliate link).

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2833281 16-Dec-2021 10:07

RobDickinson:

MikeAqua:

The exhaust from hydrogen is water. What's the exhaust from a lithium battery fire?

oooh yes a fully balanced statement here lol

I can't help thinking that with Lithium batteries it's a case out on the frying pan and into the fire. In my humble opinion the use of Lithium batteries is another thing that mankind is going to regret using.

RobDickinson

1516 posts

Uber Geek

#2833287 16-Dec-2021 10:20

Luckily for us science disagrees.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2833308 16-Dec-2021 10:56

RobDickinson:

Luckily for us science disagrees.

The science tells us that Lithium batteries these can be recycled and is the prudent thing to do. My concern is that history tells us we often do not do the prudent thing and opt for short cuts and the short cut for disposal of lithium batteries will be the landfill where things never come back to bite us, hmmm.

Obraik

2112 posts

Uber Geek

#2833314 16-Dec-2021 11:14

MikeB4:

The science tells us that Lithium batteries these can be recycled and is the prudent thing to do. My concern is that history tells us we often do not do the prudent thing and opt for short cuts and the short cut for disposal of lithium batteries will be the landfill where things never come back to bite us, hmmm.

How is this not an issue for hydrogen vehicles as well?

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2833318 16-Dec-2021 11:20

Obraik:

How is this not an issue for hydrogen vehicles as well?

Hydrogen powered vehicles have a small Lithium battery that is used to store power from regenerative braking and can provide some boost. These are tiny compared to the battery banks in a full EV. In theory a Hydrogen fuel cell car can live without the booster battery.

Obraik

2112 posts

Uber Geek

#2833320 16-Dec-2021 11:27

MikeB4:

Hydrogen powered vehicles have a small Lithium battery that is used to store power from regenerative braking and can provide some boost. These are tiny compared to the battery banks in a full EV. In theory a Hydrogen fuel cell car can live without the booster battery.

That's not quite correct. The Nexo in the article that this post is based around has a 40kWh battery, which is more than most Leaf and 10kWh less than a Model 3 SR+

The vehicle is powered by the battery, not the fuel cell as a fuel cell can't keep up with instant power draw. The fuel cell just keeps the battery topped up.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2833327 16-Dec-2021 11:37

They are using a battery as a traction battery but it does not need to be that way. It also seem to be an inefficient way that is probably done to change the price point for "cheapness" as opposed to best case.

Scott3

3897 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2833380 16-Dec-2021 11:44

Obraik:

MikeB4:

Hydrogen powered vehicles have a small Lithium battery that is used to store power from regenerative braking and can provide some boost. These are tiny compared to the battery banks in a full EV. In theory a Hydrogen fuel cell car can live without the booster battery.

That's not quite correct. The Nexo in the article that this post is based around has a 40kWh battery, which is more than most Leaf and 10kWh less than a Model 3 SR+

The vehicle is powered by the battery, not the fuel cell as a fuel cell can't keep up with instant power draw. The fuel cell just keeps the battery topped up.

The nexo has a 40kW / 1.56 kWh battery. First number is the peak power output from the battery, second number is it's energy storage capacity.

Sadly it seems lots of motoring journalists don't understand SI units, and the first google results I came across had the (incorrect) 40kWh number you quoted.

So obviously the scale difference between a Nexo battery and say a kona (39 / 64 usable kWh) is substantial.

But I don't consider a 1.56kWh pack as "tiny". It's still a fairly sizable pack, and should be treated as an automotive scale pack for disposal / recycling, even if it is 15 times smaller than the pack in my Nissan leaf.

RobDickinson

1516 posts

Uber Geek

#2833382 16-Dec-2021 11:46

MikeB4:

RobDickinson:

Luckily for us science disagrees.

The science tells us that Lithium batteries these can be recycled and is the prudent thing to do. My concern is that history tells us we often do not do the prudent thing and opt for short cuts and the short cut for disposal of lithium batteries will be the landfill where things never come back to bite us, hmmm.

Not sure about here but most places its illegal to dump car batteries in landfill anyhow

And a used car battery is a valuable thing, no one is throwing them away.

Obraik

2112 posts

Uber Geek

#2833407 16-Dec-2021 13:05

Scott3:

The nexo has a 40kW / 1.56 kWh battery. First number is the peak power output from the battery, second number is it's energy storage capacity.

Sadly it seems lots of motoring journalists don't understand SI units, and the first google results I came across had the (incorrect) 40kWh number you quoted.

So obviously the scale difference between a Nexo battery and say a kona (39 / 64 usable kWh) is substantial.

But I don't consider a 1.56kWh pack as "tiny". It's still a fairly sizable pack, and should be treated as an automotive scale pack for disposal / recycling, even if it is 15 times smaller than the pack in my Nissan leaf.

Ah, yeah the articles I found were listing it as 40kWh.

Still, I think it's ridiculous for people to go on about the dangers of a lithium battery and just ignore the high pressure tanks laying underneath you in a hydrogen vehicle. Both are unlikely to cause any problems but I would not want to be in the Hydrogen vehicle if its tanks malfunctioned - there wouldn't be much left after that ruptured.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2833414 16-Dec-2021 13:12

The storage tanks are a controlled environment just like the petrol storage tanks under every service station and the LPG tanks and CNG tanks of time past. Once a vehicle leaves the sale yard it is in an uncontrolled environment. Humanity does not have a very good track record in dealing with toxic waste or any waste. Recycling especially in Aotearoa is half arsed at best. One just has to look at the nightmare plastics and E waste has created globally as just two examples.

RobDickinson

1516 posts

Uber Geek

#2833417 16-Dec-2021 13:15

Yes that very controlled hydrogen environment ..

https://www.electrive.com/2019/06/11/norway-explosion-at-fuel-cell-filling-station/

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-california-explosion/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-hydrogen-southkorea-insight-idUSKBN1W936A

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2833424 16-Dec-2021 13:21

You don't mention the battery fire at the power plant in Australia or the incidents of lithium battery fires in vehicles. You know what I was referring to.

RobDickinson

1516 posts

Uber Geek

#2833428 16-Dec-2021 13:23

Or the hundreds of thousands of car fires every year we already have ?

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | ... | 18