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RobDickinson
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  #2886344 15-Mar-2022 09:41
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The extension has already passed - the full clean car scheme starts April 1st


RUKI
1342 posts

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  #2886419 15-Mar-2022 11:53
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When people suggest "buy cheap Leaf" for your "around town needs", what they really mean and would not tell you is that they can't wait to sell their near-end-of-life scrap and are already planning to buy hybrid or plug-in hybrid for themselves.
Few previous Leaf owners already told me privately how happy they were to get rid of one and enjoying their Prius/Aqua/Lexus Hybrid/Fielder/Auris/Harrier.. [Even M.B****r, prominent hybrid hater in one FB group had swapped her Leaf for PHEV]
Leaf-o-mania was short lived in NZ - somewhat 5 years to get to realization.... that the car is awesome, but "disposable" and has low resale value.
The 40kWh Leafs are still selling (cool car IMO) but majority of population would only have money for cheapest Aqua and not for ZE1 Leaf.
You buy Toyota Hybrid today and you know that brand new batteries are always available and they are 5 times cheaper than battery for 30/40kWh Leaf (e.g. $4k vs $20k).
NP2 Modules in Toyota Hybrids have same form-factor and compatible to each other, making rebuild/repair easy and economical.





Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 


jonathan18
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  #2886434 15-Mar-2022 12:29
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RUKI: When people suggest "buy cheap Leaf" for your "around town needs", what they really mean and would not tell you is that they can't wait to sell their near-end-of-life scrap and are already planning to buy hybrid or plug-in hybrid for themselves.
Few previous Leaf owners already told me privately how happy they were to get rid of one and enjoying their Prius/Aqua/Lexus Hybrid/Fielder/Auris/Harrier.. [Even M.B****r, prominent hybrid hater in one FB group had swapped her Leaf for PHEV]
Leaf-o-mania was short lived in NZ - somewhat 5 years to get to realization.... that the car is awesome, but "disposable" and has low resale value.
The 40kWh Leafs are still selling (cool car IMO) but majority of population would only have money for cheapest Aqua and not for ZE1 Leaf.
You buy Toyota Hybrid today and you know that brand new batteries are always available and they are 5 times cheaper than battery for 30/40kWh Leaf (e.g. $4k vs $20k).
NP2 Modules in Toyota Hybrids have same form-factor and compatible to each other, making rebuild/repair easy and economical.

 

Sorry, but I really do need to call you out on these huge generalisations regarding Leafs and Leaf owners; I have a feeling your own passion for hybrids - and the Toyota hybrid system in particular - does impact on this.

 

I get that many who want an affordable efficient car that is capable of decent distances look to hybrids; but many two-car families really don't need both cars to have that long-distance range. 

 

There are also many Leaf owners that are fully aware of the limitations of their cars in regards to range, including the potential for reduced range over time, and yet remain totally satisfied owners. Three in my family (myself and two siblings) fall in this camp. An EV with a relatively low range (ours is now at about 108km on full charge, down from 145 when first bought) is absolutely perfect for our needs as a second 'around town' car. When that range does become too low for our use (or, more likely, when we want to upgrade) I certainly will be looking at another EV, not a hybrid. 

 

 




RobDickinson
1408 posts

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  #2886454 15-Mar-2022 13:02
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Leafomania still manages to import hundreds a month. stop with the bs they ar great city cars if nothing else, and thats what a lot of people need.


RUKI
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  #2886622 15-Mar-2022 16:37
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I knew that my comment about Leafs vs Hybrids could make some Leaf owners uncomfortable, especially those who are desperate to get rid of one, trying to convince themselves and people around that range of 40-100km is OK. It might be, for today only, for their personal circumstance, but not in a long term and not for everyone.

Some people don't realise that degradation of any EV battery is not linear. The older it gets, the more charge/discharge cycles - the higher the risk of abrupt failure, I.e. accidental failure of individual modules. This is also valid for hybrid battery packs and for any multiple-module battery pack.
I am not biased towards any make or model, I just happen to have a lot of experience with Leafs and Hybrids.

You have to remember I am still helping a lot of Leaf owners with various services, much more than hybrid owners.
Is is not a secret that hybrid owners have much less issues vs Leaf owners. If do not believe - familiarize yourself with 12V Leaf battery fiasco - massive issues...

I educate those who want to buy EV or Hybrid what to check to not get a lemon. e.g. 2 days ago I talked a guy out of buying dodgy Leaf (was not offering them any alternative), clearly understanding that I was loosing on getting the job for that 30Kwh Leaf (extra key programming and full language conversion). He was so in love with it and by the sound of it not that happy that someone opened his eyes and potentially saved from inevitable financial losses.

Good luck making informed decisions.

P.S. insider info: one of the cheapest dealers in Auckland who never ever orders any extras (like language conversions) as they bring only the cheapest (low grade) cars they can get in Japan - they had already over 4 Aquas with dead batteries - cause of death - clogged fans, overheat. I was not asked to test those as they were looking for "the cheapest way" to get them on the market...




Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 


Scott3
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  #2886808 16-Mar-2022 00:37
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Have both a hybrid and a Leaf in the driveway, so have a foot in both camps so to speak.

 

Stand by my comment that a Leaf and another car is a good setup for a household that only really needs one car, but prefers to own two. (based on the assumption that the household doesn't have $60k+ to drop on a model 3 / polestar 2 etc).

 

When the range of the leaf (cira 100km) is not enough, depending on mood, we with either use fast charger's, or take the other car.

 

I do view the leaf as disposable, which does run counter to my personal ethos.

 

Mine is a 2014. My battery health is around 70 - 75%. This is in the bottom 5% of 2014 cars, likely due to the 1000+ fast charges the car has had. Degradation seems to be pretty linear based on flip the fleet data (concave up for the 40kWh pack). I am expecting another roughly 7-8 years running before the car drops below 45% or so health, which I view as end of life for the vehicle.

 

 

 

Does pain me to treat the car as a disposable, but I think I will more than recovered the $12,500 purchase price in fuel and maintenance savings over that time.


quickymart

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  #2891768 24-Mar-2022 23:11
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Something like one of these looks like it might be ideal for my needs, even if the price is a little steep (or is this right?):

 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/note/listing/3525218437?bof=3u7iiCJq

 

Please excuse the crappy quality pictures, but you get the idea 🙂




alasta
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  #2891826 25-Mar-2022 09:09
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The lack of registration plates looks dodgy. 


jonathan18
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  #2891844 25-Mar-2022 09:47
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alasta:

 

The lack of registration plates looks dodgy. 

 

 

They're just the photos taken in Japan before the car has left, and are really common when dealers are selling cars that haven't yet left or are on their way here. I'm always amazed at how bad those photos can be, and it does make purchasing a car more difficult if one doesn't have access to high-quality images.

 

Even once in NZ cars will typically remain un-registered until purchased - imagine the cost to a dealer of keeping all inventory registered...


Scott3
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  #2891857 25-Mar-2022 10:13
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quickymart:

 

Something like one of these looks like it might be ideal for my needs, even if the price is a little steep (or is this right?):

 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/note/listing/3525218437?bof=3u7iiCJq

 

Please excuse the crappy quality pictures, but you get the idea 🙂

 

 

These were discussed earlier in the thread. As an example:

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=293225&page_no=2#2845096

 

 

 

As previously discussed, it is quite an unusual configuration, as a pure series hybrid. This means the engine solely turns a generator and has no mechanical links to the wheels. Only other example I can think of this setup is the BMW i3 REX. Most hybrids switch between series and parallel operational modes on the fly.

 

Sounds like it has the same 80kW electric motor as my Nissan leaf, but in a smaller car, so should accelerate pretty good.

 

Rated at 2.7L/100km which is quite epic.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RPTrJzCRE0

 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/c/motors/review/nissan-note-epower-2012-2018-used-car-review

 

 


antonknee
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  #2891862 25-Mar-2022 10:22
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jonathan18:

 

RUKI: When people suggest "buy cheap Leaf" for your "around town needs", what they really mean and would not tell you is that they can't wait to sell their near-end-of-life scrap and are already planning to buy hybrid or plug-in hybrid for themselves....

 

Sorry, but I really do need to call you out on these huge generalisations regarding Leafs and Leaf owners; I have a feeling your own passion for hybrids - and the Toyota hybrid system in particular - does impact on this....

 

I get that many who want an affordable efficient car that is capable of decent distances look to hybrids; but many two-car families really don't need both cars to have that long-distance range. 

 

 

The Leaf is a great car but it has its limitations. If those fit with your lifestyle, that's fantastic - not every car is suitable for every person. The average bear is probably better off with something else though given those limitations, and a hybrid has broad appeal to more people because of those limitations (not that hybrids are perfect). 

 

I think in fairness to RUKI, a lot of people probably buy the Leaf thinking they can fit with those limitations and then realise it's harder than they thought, or their needs change; or the Leaf does fit with their needs but the car is EOL due to battery health or something hence the desire to flick it on.


antonknee
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  #2891863 25-Mar-2022 10:24
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jonathan18:

 

They're just the photos taken in Japan before the car has left, and are really common when dealers are selling cars that haven't yet left or are on their way here. I'm always amazed at how bad those photos can be, and it does make purchasing a car more difficult if one doesn't have access to high-quality images.

 

Even once in NZ cars will typically remain un-registered until purchased - imagine the cost to a dealer of keeping all inventory registered...

 

 

Also I think if they register it that would mean the end user wouldn't be eligible to claim the rebate? Or perhaps I'm wrong/this has changed now.

 

New cars don't have registration plates either, this is part of what on road costs cover when you buy a car.


jonathan18
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  #2891864 25-Mar-2022 10:25
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antonknee:

 

The Leaf is a great car but it has its limitations. If those fit with your lifestyle, that's fantastic - not every car is suitable for every person. The average bear is probably better off with something else though given those limitations, and a hybrid has broad appeal to more people because of those limitations (not that hybrids are perfect). 

 

 

TBH, I think even an average bear would struggle to fit in a Leaf; I'm thinking an EV Hummer or F150 may be more suitable.


antonknee
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  #2891898 25-Mar-2022 11:15
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jonathan18:

 

antonknee:

 

The Leaf is a great car but it has its limitations. If those fit with your lifestyle, that's fantastic - not every car is suitable for every person. The average bear is probably better off with something else though given those limitations, and a hybrid has broad appeal to more people because of those limitations (not that hybrids are perfect). 

 

 

TBH, I think even an average bear would struggle to fit in a Leaf; I'm thinking an EV Hummer or F150 may be more suitable.

 

 

You're probably right, to drive a Leaf you would certainly need a bear of below-average size but above-average intelligence 🐻.


quickymart

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  #2892034 25-Mar-2022 12:44
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Scott3:

 

quickymart:

 

Something like one of these looks like it might be ideal for my needs, even if the price is a little steep (or is this right?):

 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/note/listing/3525218437?bof=3u7iiCJq

 

Please excuse the crappy quality pictures, but you get the idea 🙂

 

 

These were discussed earlier in the thread. As an example:

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=293225&page_no=2#2845096

 

As previously discussed, it is quite an unusual configuration, as a pure series hybrid. This means the engine solely turns a generator and has no mechanical links to the wheels. Only other example I can think of this setup is the BMW i3 REX. Most hybrids switch between series and parallel operational modes on the fly.

 

Sounds like it has the same 80kW electric motor as my Nissan leaf, but in a smaller car, so should accelerate pretty good.

 

Rated at 2.7L/100km which is quite epic.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RPTrJzCRE0

 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/c/motors/review/nissan-note-epower-2012-2018-used-car-review

 

 

Sorry I didn't see that - my thread has become quite lengthy! Thanks for that, I think I'll aim for one of these. I've had a few Nissans before and quite liked driving them.

 

One other query - Mazda (which I've owned a few of in the past) don't do any hybrids do they? Nor VW? I mean, available in this country.


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