Waka Kotahi - What a Disgrace

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nickb800

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#2937211 1-Jul-2022 15:57

Technofreak:

Ok, let's, for a minute, stop arguing the relative merit of fixing the problem. What about NZTA just doing the honourable thing and handing back the road in the same state as it was when they took it over?

It's more complicated than the mayor's lawnmower analogy. If we are relating the road to a lawnmower, it's more like your neighbor saying 'can I borrow your old rusty lawnmower (which might be worth $1 on Trademe), you can still use it and I'll take care of all of the maintenance'. After 10 years of the arrangement, both of you benefiting from use of the mower, the motor blows up and your neighbor walks away from the problem. You've had a good run, with use of a mower for 10 years with no maintenance costs, and all you did was chipped in a rusty old mower worth $1 ten years ago.

In the context of roads they are a liability rather than an asset - they cost more money than they bring in (unless they are tolled, which isn't the case here). To be clear, I don't think roads are a bad thing, they have a huge benefit for society. But from a council's point of view, they either own the road and Waka Kotahi covers 50% of the upkeep, or Waka Kotahi owns the road and Waka Kotahi covers 100% of the upkeep - one of those is a lot more advantageous for the council!

In an alternate scenario, where the road was never loaned to Waka Kotahi, and the crossing started facing problems in 2022, I think the council would be even stingier than Waka Kotahi in stumping up to fix the crossing properly, and more likely than Waka Kotahi to close the crossing. This reflects that the cost of fixing the crossing is a much bigger share of the council's roading budget than Waka Kotahi, even if the council was only on the hook for 50%. Also, if the council went to Waka Kotahi saying 'we want to do a big upgrade of the level crossing, are you happy to pay 50%' they would probably say no on the same basis as they are now. So, whether it was loaned to Waka Kotahi or not, is a red herring.

johnmo

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#2937216 1-Jul-2022 16:06

Lets add a "local" set of information to this.

During the diversion "Google" now suggests going down local rural roads that are not part of the detour.

So these local roads that are narrow very low traffic (this this) with kids riding between friends farms on bikes no longer are allowed by parents to go the roads anymore.

People who walk on these roads (no verge and deep ditches close to road for drainage) no longer can walk between neighbours or for exercise.

People who ran daily for fitness (always running facing traffic of maybe 20 cars a day) now are afraid due to hundreds of vehicles on these back roads that were forgotten. They no longer run.

BTrain trucks going down these roads at 90k that include H rated vehicles that the roads are not legally rated for but Police have advised they cannot enforce due to NZTA putting a diversion in place. Not the traffic is not going on the actual diversion but on the shorter cheaper route.

These local roads now have long 50k temp sections as they are breaking up badly due to qty and weight of trucks they are not designed for and WDC will have to pay for repairs.

BTrain trucks going over a different rail crossing which has a right angle bend in it at the same time that they cannot get around easily and opposing traffic has to stop but no signage in place so multiple accidents seen at this crossing over the last 2 months.

So a decision by Kiwirail and NZTA to not fix a state highway will (and has) cost many people a huge amount of danger, accidents and local council a major clean up cost.

Yet for months now while the crossing is closed NZTA has paid for a minimum of two contractors to be present 24/7 at the closed section complete with porta loos at what cost.

It may be we should save money being needlessly spent but that crossing has been in place for at least 20 years as part of highway 1B so why now along with costs of shutting it being put onto locals.

Obviously affected by this and you dont want to hear the locals absolute fear of being on the roads now affected by a Wellington solution!

Rant over

RunningMan

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#2937228 1-Jul-2022 16:41

There's 2 issues though - funding of the repair, and excess traffic volume on unsuitable roads.

The traffic volume is expected to drop very significantly when the new bypass opens (I don't know when, but I read it is very soon). That should make a material improvement for the local activities that @johnmo reffers to. If the 1B route is no longer a state highway then the expected traffic volume should reduce a lot. What has happened to the existing traffic volumes when other sections of that expressway were opened? Presumably there will also need to be some additional repairs of the diversion route/s due to the extra traffic it has seen.

The other issue is the repair or otherwise of the level crossing area. It seems Waka Kotahi are actually being quite sensible by not just throwing a large amount of money at the problem without looking at all the options. The linked article presumably doesn't tell the full story, but it seems as if there are public meetings / consultation on the problem - is that not a good thing?

Technofreak

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#2937293 1-Jul-2022 18:08

RunningMan:

There's 2 issues though - funding of the repair, and excess traffic volume on unsuitable roads.

The traffic volume is expected to drop very significantly when the new bypass opens (I don't know when, but I read it is very soon). That should make a material improvement for the local activities that @johnmo reffers to. If the 1B route is no longer a state highway then the expected traffic volume should reduce a lot. What has happened to the existing traffic volumes when other sections of that expressway were opened? Presumably there will also need to be some additional repairs of the diversion route/s due to the extra traffic it has seen.

The other issue is the repair or otherwise of the level crossing area. It seems Waka Kotahi are actually being quite sensible by not just throwing a large amount of money at the problem without looking at all the options. The linked article presumably doesn't tell the full story, but it seems as if there are public meetings / consultation on the problem - is that not a good thing?

So long as it is meaningful consultation and not just window dressing as is often the case. The reference to the locals fear of a "Wellington solution" by Johnmo is very relevant.

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LurkingKiwi

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#2937361 1-Jul-2022 19:45

WyleECoyoteNZ: Slamming Waka Kotahi isn't really fair.

But then Kiwirail raised the rail, probably without addressing the crossing at the same time.

I don't believe that "raised" means "recently raised", just that the railway is at a higher elevation than the road.

As trucks get longer, the risk of grounding increases, and I think this is what is happening.

Technofreak

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#2937371 1-Jul-2022 21:04

LurkingKiwi:

WyleECoyoteNZ: Slamming Waka Kotahi isn't really fair.

But then Kiwirail raised the rail, probably without addressing the crossing at the same time.

I don't believe that "raised" means "recently raised", just that the railway is at a higher elevation than the road.

As trucks get longer, the risk of grounding increases, and I think this is what is happening.

If that's the case then, why not just limit the truck/trailer length in a similar manner to the way they limit weights on some bridges rather than close the road.

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RunningMan

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#2937372 1-Jul-2022 21:06

Seems reasonable, perhaps ask Waka Kotahi or go to one of the meetings. Let us know how you get on.

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gregmcc

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#2937401 2-Jul-2022 06:54

Technofreak:

WyleECoyoteNZ: Slamming Waka Kotahi isn't really fair.

Yes, they've been maintaining the road, but the Road is owned by Waikato District Council.

But then Kiwirail raised the rail, probably without addressing the crossing at the same time.

As the fella in the story says, all 3 parties need to work together for a solution

Fair enough if it was Kiwi Rail that made the changes causing the problem. I didn't see any reference to that. It certainly explains how the problem has occurred. Then why doesn't NZTA make Kiwi Rail fix the problem rather than just walking away from the problem.

Yes, the road is "owned" by the WDC but since it's currently designated a State highway NZTA are responsible for it until that designation is revoked, which I guess will be after the expressway opens then responsibility for the road will revert to WDC.

As the WDC mayor said it's a bit like your neighbour borrowing you mower, breaking it then returning it to you in a broken state. Surely NZTA have a responsibility to hand back the road in the same state as when they took it over?

So we have two government agencies/SOE's who are prepared to shirk their responsibilities.

NZTA have already proven that they hand back broken roads to Waikato DC and walk away from the problem leaving a very expensive fix behind, this happened very recently at the south end of Huntly, SH1 was handed back when the Huntly section of the expressway opened, the intersection of Tanui Bridge road and SH1 needed major repairs which the council ended up carrying the cost of repairs. NZTA are set to do this again.

Want another example, but this time they have been caught, Street lights with wires hanging out (Again SH1 Huntly) NZTA responsible for maintiance, they were going to leave it in an electrically unsafe situation where anyone could touch live wires, they were forced by worksafe to disconnect them while plans were made to repair, 1 year later they decided to apply to kiwirail for a permit (they needed access via the rail corridor to repair), took another 5 months to get all the info Kiwirail wanted (this process should only take 10 days), now there is another 3 months delay while they get contractors lined up.

All road users pay a tax to use the road, be it on fuel purchases or RUC's, NZTA have no problem putting their hand out for the money, so they should be fixing rather than walking away from the problem.

Technofreak

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#2947136 27-Jul-2022 22:46

Another stuff up

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/300645944/waka-kotahi-to-capture-the-learnings-after-oversight-scuppered-planned-repairs-in-taranaki

This stretch of road was closed for three months last year for road works. It looked a dogs breakfast a day or two after it was opened. No surprise that it needs repairs so soon. When will NZTA ensure our highways are built to an acceptable standard.

I see headlines today that transmission gully has some issues as well.

Also ask the locals how the new Waikato Expressway is going at Tamahere. The words " Couldn't, piss up, and brewery" come to mind.

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allan

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#2947145 27-Jul-2022 23:22

Technofreak:

Another stuff up

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/300645944/waka-kotahi-to-capture-the-learnings-after-oversight-scuppered-planned-repairs-in-taranaki

This stretch of road was closed for three months last year for road works. It looked a dogs breakfast a day or two after it was opened. No surprise that it needs repairs so soon. When will NZTA ensure our highways are built to an acceptable standard.

I see headlines today that transmission gully has some issues as well.

Also ask the locals how the new Waikato Expressway is going at Tamahere. The words " Couldn't, piss up, and brewery" come to mind.

That Tariki underpass section of road has been problematic for as long as I can remember - even back to Ministry of Works days in the 1970's. I can recall much frustration back then, following a resealing, when traffic kept speeding through the area, ignoring the reduced speed signs and ripping the new seal up before it had consolidated properly.

Dingbatt

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#2947170 28-Jul-2022 06:45

When an organisation uses the word “learnings”, I switch off. Invented ‘corporate speak’ at its worst. The word is “lessons”.

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Geektastic

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#2947172 28-Jul-2022 07:12

I know someone who works there. No names, no pack drill but the stories of waste and incompetence I hear should make any tax payer’s blood boil.

The individual has worked in many government departments and they’re all similar: we estimated at least 30% off budgets is just wasted money spent on irrelevant nonsense.

frankv

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#2947179 28-Jul-2022 08:05

Technofreak:

Also ask the locals how the new Waikato Expressway is going at Tamahere. The words " Couldn't, piss up, and brewery" come to mind.

I drove the Waikato Expressway last week. The best road in NZ? So, enlighten us, what problems do the Tamahere locals have with it?

Technofreak

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#2947197 28-Jul-2022 09:13

frankv:

Technofreak:

Also ask the locals how the new Waikato Expressway is going at Tamahere. The words " Couldn't, piss up, and brewery" come to mind.

I drove the Waikato Expressway last week. The best road in NZ? So, enlighten us, what problems do the Tamahere locals have with it?

Did you drive past or get off at the Tamahere/Airport off ramp? I'm guessing you didn't otherwise you wouldn't need to ask the question.

They've been working in that area for 4 or 5 years but for some obscure reason there's about 1 km of road that's not finished yet. Now you have three lanes of southbound traffic having to merge into one and at a lot of times during the day this is causing a long tail of slow traffic approaching the off ramp from the north. So much so there's now a temporary electronic warning sign advising of the queue ahead. Traffic is also backing up from the south as the northbound is one lane only as well

To make matters worse they have blocked off the exit lane for the off ramp forcing that traffic to merge for all of about 50 metres before allowing that traffic to exit onto the off ramp. The exit lane could be in use all the way along and this would alleviate some of the problem.

The Tamahere locals have endured 4 to 5 years of major disruption while the road was being built and even though it's supposedly finished the disruption continues.

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Technofreak

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#2947201 28-Jul-2022 09:21

allan:

Technofreak:

Another stuff up

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/300645944/waka-kotahi-to-capture-the-learnings-after-oversight-scuppered-planned-repairs-in-taranaki

This stretch of road was closed for three months last year for road works. It looked a dogs breakfast a day or two after it was opened. No surprise that it needs repairs so soon. When will NZTA ensure our highways are built to an acceptable standard.

I see headlines today that transmission gully has some issues as well.

Also ask the locals how the new Waikato Expressway is going at Tamahere. The words " Couldn't, piss up, and brewery" come to mind.

That Tariki underpass section of road has been problematic for as long as I can remember - even back to Ministry of Works days in the 1970's. I can recall much frustration back then, following a resealing, when traffic kept speeding through the area, ignoring the reduced speed signs and ripping the new seal up before it had consolidated properly.

Your memory is different from mine having lived there for around 35 years in my slightly younger days. That aside this was part of the section of rad that was closed for 3 months to enable major repairs to be under taken. There was no need to have to worry about the new seal being ripped up they had the opportunity to do the job properly and let things settle down.

To have to go back so soon for repairs indicates the job wasn't done properly to start with. I believe there were two or three contractors working on various sections of the closed portion. Anecdotally one contractor did a much better job than the other one(s). NZTA should be ensuring a good, uniform standard of eork was being done.

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