How do Aucklander's find day to day EV life without charging at home?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › How do Aucklander's find day to day EV life without charging at home?

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1964 posts

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#2995746 14-Nov-2022 09:52

While your apartment doesn't have an place to charge an EV, have you asked if they'd consider adding any kind of power to where you park? Even a 10A socket would be enough.

I have a friend in Auckland who is currently living an apartment. They've managed to convince their building owner to take it to a vote, which is still silly but better than nothing. However, he is able to charge his car at work so that makes the experience much the same as being able to charge at home. Is that something you might be able to do as well?

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MikeAqua

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#2995750 14-Nov-2022 10:08

Scott3:

Paid DC fast charging isn't cheap. Charge.net's new rates for the like of that new world charger is 80c/kWh (for comparison my home power is 17c/kWh). At 17.2kWh/100km, this works out to $13.75/100km. For comparison a camry hybrid at 5L/100km using $2.4/L petrol would cost about $12/100km to fuel. And EV's could have RUC's applied in a couple of years.

I recently borrowed my neighbour's EV while he was overseas to shut him up about it to see what it was like. The cost of paid charging really shocked me. I think petrol would have been cheaper at retail prices.

Mike

GV27

5429 posts

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#2995753 14-Nov-2022 10:15

MikeAqua:

I recently borrowed my neighbour's EV while he was overseas to shut him up about it to see what it was like. The cost of paid charging really shocked me. I think petrol would have been cheaper at retail prices.

You're effectively renting the space as well as the energy you're buying. It's as much about getting people to not sit there all day as anything else.

MikeAqua

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#2995755 14-Nov-2022 10:23

Obraik:

While your apartment doesn't have an place to charge an EV, have you asked if they'd consider adding any kind of power to where you park? Even a 10A socket would be enough.

I have a friend in Auckland who is currently living an apartment. They've managed to convince their building owner to take it to a vote, which is still silly but better than nothing.

That would have to go to a vote with the body corporate for our apartment too. Each carpark is allocated as an "attached unit" and most apartments don't have a park at all.

Installation of a charger would be expensive but benefit only the owner of one carpark, so the BC would need to be assured the owner is paying for it upfront and covering any additional ongoing costs etc.

Mike

alasta

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#2995772 14-Nov-2022 10:50

I am on the committee of our residents society, which is essentially the same as a body corporate with a different legal structure.

We have been looking at this issue for our complex but it is quite fraught. We have identified a supplier who can provide a system which would allow individual car park owners to purchase a charger and have the power cost billed back to them. The system, as I understand it, throttles the current draw of all chargers in the building so that the electrical capacity is shared equally between them. This means that as more chargers get added, the existing ones will get slowed down unless we upgrade the electrical capacity in the building which then raises questions around who pays for it.

The vast majority of our residents do not own electric vehicles and will object to funding something that benefits what they perceive to be "wealthy Tesla owners".

jonathan18

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#2995779 14-Nov-2022 10:59

MikeAqua:
That would have to go to a vote with the body corporate for our apartment too. Each carpark is allocated as an "attached unit" and most apartments don't have a park at all.

Installation of a charger would be expensive but benefit only the owner of one carpark, so the BC would need to be assured the owner is paying for it upfront and covering any additional ongoing costs etc.

What was suggested above was installing even just a standard 3-pin power outlet, which would allow the owner to use their own EVSE (think the ‘charger’ you probably used when you borrowed that Leaf) - that’s quite different to installing an actual charger, with the cost likely many times lower.

Many EV owners - myself included - get by ok with charging via a 10A socket.

Obraik

1964 posts

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#2995782 14-Nov-2022 11:04

The shared load solution isn't a bad one, assuming each parking bay is able to get 8-10A if all chargers are in use.

I guess there's no way to avoid people assessing a new addition like this based on the here and now rather than how their circumstances might change in the coming years. Realistically, many of those occupants that don't currently have an EV now will likely have one in the next 10 years. Even if they don't or they intend to move out before then, the pool of people wanting to buy a new apartment who don't have an EV will be reducing - people with an EV are going to favour buying an apartment at buildings that do cater for that and those apartments without that may find themselves having to sell their place for less.

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Scott3

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#2995890 14-Nov-2022 11:58

With all the discussion on PHEV's. General principle is that you have enough electric range to cover all, or at least a decent chunk of your daily running, then use petrol the rest of the time. Note:

Many PHEV's (incl the BMW 330e, and Lexus NX 450h+) are not fitted with a DC charge port. As an example the BMW 330e has a max charge rate of 3.6kW, which means a 3 hour charge time.
Those PHEV that do have fast charge port's (like the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV), still take 20 - 25min to charge from 0-80%. The battery is so small it can only soak up a maximum of 22kW from a fast charger. Some big battery EV's can offer comparable charge time's (i.e. Kia EV6 LR which takes 18min to go from 10% to 80%). Latter does need a 300kW charger to get that time though, and would take 73min on a 50kW charger.
Cost of running on petrol is likely to be similar to the cost of paid fast charging.
Range is short compared to pure EV's, so requires more frequent charging to keep topped off

All the above points mean's there is little point in buying a PHEV unless you have home or workplace charging. Realistically it won't be worth the effort to publicly charge it most day, and that leaves you with a extra expensive and heavy car, vs a similar non plug in hybrid.

MikeAqua:

I recently borrowed my neighbour's EV while he was overseas to shut him up about it to see what it was like. The cost of paid charging really shocked me. I think petrol would have been cheaper at retail prices.

Chargenet has recently increased it's priced (first time doing so in the history of the company if I recall correctly). Takes the price of charging in EV at their paid DC stations from about the same ballpark as an efficient petrol car, to a little more expensive.

In my worked example, a Camry hybrid was cheaper to run than an EV.

For most EV owners this isn't a big deal at all, as 90% plus of their charging is done at home.

DC charging is an expensive service to provide. Those 50kW chargers cost around $50,000 each, and daily lines fees must be substantial.

Scott3

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#2995905 14-Nov-2022 12:27

billgates:

PHEV has a smaller battery which will not take as long and waste OP's time at public charging station as a full-size EV. The Lexus can provide 75KM of EV range which for a lot of commuters is more than enough to and back from work. Hybrid vehicles are useless when it comes to pickup power on hills and overtaking other cars. This is where ICE, PHEV and EV shine. Hybrid is perfect for a taxi or for folks that do not need pickup power. I imagine if the OP has $110K to spend they want the pickup power...

Lol. The Lexus GS450h I suggested prior can do 0-100km/h in under 6 seconds. No shortage of pick up here.

I doubt OP is going to cross shop a BMW i4 with a Toyota aqua.

RunningMan

7964 posts

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#2996065 14-Nov-2022 15:59

This is mostly relevent to the UK, but a few interesting ideas, including a couple that may help the guy in Hobsonville.

MikeAqua

7616 posts

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#2996066 14-Nov-2022 16:00

jonathan18:

What was suggested above was installing even just a standard 3-pin power outlet, which would allow the owner to use their own EVSE (think the ‘charger’ you probably used when you borrowed that Leaf) - that’s quite different to installing an actual charger, with the cost likely many times lower.

Many EV owners - myself included - get by ok with charging via a 10A socket.

Sure but (especially if parks are allocated) that it's still BC expenditure for an individual 'upgrade'. It's difficult for most BCs to fund that sort of thing. Easy if the apartment owner is prepared to pay for it and use the BC's usual sparky. Source: I was on my BC's exec committee. We used to get minor apartment alteration requests funded by ACC. Every apartment is a fire cell, so penetrations to common/exterior walls were a potential problem.

Mike

BuzzLightyear

402 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2996200 14-Nov-2022 20:58

RE Genesis EV Plan and ChargeNet:

For reference I’m in west Auckland and on the Genesis EV plan pay 11c p kWh after 9pm. When I use the ChargeNet chargers after 9pm I pay the same 11c but conveniently billed to my
Power bill. 22c is peak rate.

Also, to consider, the availability and usefulness of the Tesla Superchargers should be a consideration in your vehicle purchase. Seeing what bays are available on your gps and when they are busy is super useful.

gareth41

733 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2996330 14-Nov-2022 23:22

Those free Vector chargers wont be free forever. At a guess, I think things may change next year. Chargenet has already filed a complaint with the Electricity Authority regarding the free vector chargers, as they're deterring any other company from investing in charging infrastructure in that area - there was a document I came across when searing online some time ago - I think it was on the Electricity Authority website somewhere.

Additionally with those free Vector chargers, people are abusing them - you're only supposed have 30 min max and the charger will stop shortly after - I've saw a Tesla owner unplug the charger from their car and plug it back in again all while others were waiting. These free chargers are located in carparks like New World and McDonalds, people are just sitting in their cars and not even going into these businesses to buy anything.

As was mentioned further up this thread, congestion at these free chargers is only going to get worse - so with this along with my above comments, I think things may change soon. Other network operators down south - equivalent of Vector have deployed their own chargers too but they've put them through the chargenet billing system

I live in a new subdivision in Kumeu near to a whole lot of townhouses - all with no car parks - the only public chargers are the 2x free vector chargers 10 min up the road at New World and they're almost always in use when im there - theres no chargenet chargers or any others for miles - I have added my home charger onto plugshare for people in our local community to use who haven't got a driveway

Scott3

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#2996333 14-Nov-2022 23:29

RunningMan:

This is mostly relevent to the UK, but a few interesting ideas, including a couple that may help the guy in Hobsonville.

Interesting Video.

In terms of on-street public AC charging:

NZ has a trial in wellington (and there was a unit outside the vector head office in Auckland for a while, but it has since been removed).
As with all street parking, is first in, first served (except there will be way less charge bays than general parks), so not as good an experience as coming home to a private space with a charger.
Long term if we are going to phase out petrol & diesel cars, we are going to need a heap more, but this will have hurdles. Big one being that they really need reserved bay's so they aren't constantly blocked, but this reduces the amount of general parking.
Cost structure will be higher than private charging (billing, repair, capital cost, daily lines fees etc). As an example charge.net from 30 Nov 2022 will charge 40c/kWh for it's public AC chargers. about half what it charges for DC charging, but still more than double what I pay to charge at home.

In terms of using private power to charge while parked on a street, the key issue is that street parking is first come first served. Unless you live in a location with very little demand for street parking (where generally low housing densities would make off street parking more realistic to provide), there is a decent chance that a fair chunk of the time, your trench / canter-lever charge cable holder would be blocked by another parked car. Hard to justify the cost of the install when somebody blissfully unaware could go away on holiday and leave their car blocking it for two months... Council is unlikely to approve any modifications to the footpath for this purpose. However, some of those idea's could be great in the likes of gated subdivisions, where on (private) street carparks are allocated. Am aware that there is an EV owner on Waiheke who charges their leaf on parked on the side of the road, but in this case, demand on street parking is low (no offstreet park for that site due to steep hill, rather than space constraints), and there is no footpath.

In terms of the guy in Hobsonville, it seems the car was purchased without the knowledge that it was not acceptable to park it across the footpath. The focus of the article then turns to the trip hazard of the cord, ignoring that the new parking location (across the mouth of the driveway, is also not a legal place to park). Obviously, the solution is to park the car in the garage.

Video notes that DC fast charging is a last resort due to higher cost.

For OP, They have an off street carpark, and are considering buying a $110k car, Likely utilizing the off street carpark will be wanted for for both convenience and security reasons, so on-street AC charging is unlikely to be a solution anyway.

In say 20 years when we are moving away from petrol cars, the situation should be very different. The ability to install EV charging ports in apartment car-parks should be widespread (either by legislation, or simply the bulk of body corporates supporting this). And there will be significantly more (and faster) public charging, both AC and DC.

Scott3

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#2996334 14-Nov-2022 23:52

On sharing power, to avoid needing to fund a bigger power feed to an apartment building, it is unlikely to be a big deal.

It's not like ever car gets used every day, and many of them will just be driven short distances. Once cars charge is complete they no longer need power allocated, so the charging of other car's gets sped up. Might not get a 100% charge on your flat 100kWh car overnight, but will get a very decent (contribution)

jonathan18:

What was suggested above was installing even just a standard 3-pin power outlet, which would allow the owner to use their own EVSE (think the ‘charger’ you probably used when you borrowed that Leaf) - that’s quite different to installing an actual charger, with the cost likely many times lower.

Many EV owners - myself included - get by ok with charging via a 10A socket.

In an apartment situation getting stuff installed in a shared space will require approval. Which will require the setup be fair one other body corp members

Two routes that this can go:

- A power feed from the apartment (down the electrical riser etc). Means a very long wire run and the cost of wire, but means no use of common power. Might not be possible to run the wire without ripping open walls etc.

- Use common basement power - Will require some kind of metering. Either a basic mechanical meter that somebody reads every few months, or a nice EVSE setup for apartments that integrates billing, load shedding etc. (obviously the company providing the billing service would take a margin).

If you are going to the effort of either of the above, might as well run a cable big enough to charge 32A.

Main situation where a 10A plug might work is if one already exists (they often have the odd one in the basement for cleaning / maintenance purposes. In this case, might be able to get away with getting approval to plug in, using an estimate of power cost. Perhaps 15,000km at 17kWh/100km = 2,550Kwh = about $500 per year. And this only works if a just a few people have EV's, otherwise, you will start tripping breakers.

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