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BlakJak
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  #3038663 18-Feb-2023 17:00
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Bung:
networkn:

Brakes are an essential part of a car, though I've never used my park/handbrake as primary or auxiliary braking in an emergency stop. 



On an older car the test for handbrake includes a balance requirement as it could be used as last resort while moving. On a modern car with split circuit brakes it is much less likely that there wouldn't be enough foot brake to stop. The hand brake is then regarded as a parking brake an the test is just has to hold on slope.

You should try stopping using just the handbrake and see how ineffectual it is. Disc brakes with no assist are not as good as older drum brakes used to be.

 

 

Took my old GT4 to a Grasskhana many years ago. Used the Handbrake to help effect cornering on a grass course. Could feel it becoming less and less effective during the day so eventually backed off it.

 

Afterward I inspected the Handbrake 'pads' and could see they had worn.

 

They were basically a foam pad that sat inside the wheel rim / drum and pulling the handbrake pushed them outward to contact said rim/drum and hold it still.

 

If you're using them to stop the car whilst in motion you have really big problems.

 

(One reason I really object to them being called 'e-brake'. They're a parking brake; to be used when parked, to hold the vehicle immobile once already stationary!)

 

 

Locking the 'main' brakes on - which is my understanding of what electronic parking brakes generally do - means you have one less piece of technology to stop with, as it's the same brakes. But again if your brakes fail on all four wheels, you have really big problems!




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Batman
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  #3038737 18-Feb-2023 18:05
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BlakJak: If you're using them to stop the car whilst in motion you have really big problems. (One reason I really object to them being called 'e-brake'. They're a parking brake; to be used when parked, to hold the vehicle immobile once already stationary!) Locking the 'main' brakes on - which is my understanding of what electronic parking brakes generally do - means you have one less piece of technology to stop with, as it's the same brakes. But again if your brakes fail on all four wheels, you have really big problems!

 

interestingly, although it was a misnomer, it now does serve as an e-brake

 

i am told on my car if you have problems and need to stop, just pull on the e-brake switch and the car (computer) will bring itself to a stop


Batman
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  #3038738 18-Feb-2023 18:06
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Bung:

On an older car the test for handbrake includes a balance requirement as it could be used as last resort while moving. On a modern car with split circuit brakes it is much less likely that there wouldn't be enough foot brake to stop. The hand brake is then regarded as a parking brake an the test is just has to hold on slope.

You should try stopping using just the handbrake and see how ineffectual it is. Disc brakes with no assist are not as good as older drum brakes used to be.

 

some modern cars use the rear service brake as the park brake (and auto hold)




networkn
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  #3038740 18-Feb-2023 18:26
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So I learned today that E-Brakes only engage rear wheel brakes.


Batman
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  #3038828 18-Feb-2023 21:36
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networkn:

 

So I learned today that E-Brakes only engage rear wheel brakes.

 

 

you will also learn that if you back a rear wheel drive car down a boat ramp, engage park on the gearbox, engage e-brake, leave the car, you will only be braking the rear wheels.

 

front wheels are free to move. if the boat ramp is slippery and your rear wheels are on the slippery bit, bye bye car.

 

call insurance.


Batman
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  #3038829 18-Feb-2023 21:37
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networkn:

 

So I learned today that E-Brakes only engage rear wheel brakes.

 

 

that's how rally car drivers perform a handbrake turn by causing rear wheels to lock up and break traction.


cyril7
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  #3038831 18-Feb-2023 21:43
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networkn:

So I learned today that E-Brakes only engage rear wheel brakes.



What rock, FFS

Cyril



MadEngineer
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  #3038854 18-Feb-2023 23:19
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Imagine not leaving your car in gear then learning after a rough ferry sailing how two wheels under brakes weren’t enough to stop it rolling around. .




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BlakJak
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  #3038891 19-Feb-2023 08:57
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MadEngineer: Imagine not leaving your car in gear then learning after a rough ferry sailing how two wheels under brakes weren’t enough to stop it rolling around. .

 

... and in a manual transmission vehicle you've only got two braked wheels.

 

This is why you must chock your car if you're working with the rear wheels off the ground!





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MikeAqua
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  #3039346 20-Feb-2023 12:04
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Batman:

 

you will also learn that if you back a rear wheel drive car down a boat ramp, engage park on the gearbox, engage e-brake, leave the car, you will only be braking the rear wheels.

 

front wheels are free to move. if the boat ramp is slippery and your rear wheels are on the slippery bit, bye bye car.

 

call insurance.

 

 

I always have my vehicle in 4WD for launching and retrieving the boat.  I'm not sure if that actually helps with the braking.

 

I try not to use slippery ramps (because of the danger to me, slipping and falling).  If I have to, then I have someone in the driver's seat.

 

That said, I've never had or seen a close call, with a car moving on a ramp.  I've seen a few video's of it going wrong though 😭





Mike


BlakJak
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  #3040698 22-Feb-2023 21:25
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4WD only helps with the application of driving force to all of your wheels.

 

The detail of how effective that is depends on your differentials as well... a lock-diff or LSD.

 

But your not knowing this helps illustrate why people with 4WD's think they're invincible on snow and ice and then realise - normally when it's too late - that they have no advantages whatsoever when it comes to _stopping_...

 

 

Braking with the brake pedal applies the brakes to all four wheels.

 

Braking with a (manual) handbrake usually only locks the back two wheels.

 

 

I feel like these are all things you should know if you drive a car, to be honest.




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djtOtago
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  #3040777 23-Feb-2023 10:32
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Most, if not all automatic transmissions, lock the transmission when in park. This effectively locks your driving wheels from rotating. In most cases if you are in 4WD and your auto transmission is in Park all four wheels will be locked.

 

 


Bung
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  #3040811 23-Feb-2023 11:25
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Transmission braking is subject to the differential unless it locks. International Harvester trucks had their handbrake on the driveshaft (cardan brake). In 1970s Wellington they were used as bin trucks. If the load was enough to lift the front wheels and the driver hadn't chocked the back wheels the whole lot would spin on the axis of the diff.

Batman
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  #3040840 23-Feb-2023 12:10
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djtOtago:

 

Most, if not all automatic transmissions, lock the transmission when in park. This effectively locks your driving wheels from rotating. In most cases if you are in 4WD and your auto transmission is in Park all four wheels will be locked.

 

 

 

 

most "4WD" today are either FWD or RWD when not running


BlakJak
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  #3040855 23-Feb-2023 12:51
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Bung: Transmission braking is subject to the differential unless it locks. International Harvester trucks had their handbrake on the driveshaft (cardan brake). In 1970s Wellington they were used as bin trucks. If the load was enough to lift the front wheels and the driver hadn't chocked the back wheels the whole lot would spin on the axis of the diff.

 

 

See also this safety alert relating to Cardan Brakes.




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