Any recommendations for a 1st car ?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Any recommendations for a 1st car ?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7

3076 posts

Uber Geek

#3106029 19-Jul-2023 17:51

Handle9:

Tinkerisk:

70% of vehicles in Europe are equipped with manual transmissions. So it depends on whether you want to be able to manage with it here as a tourist or also rented for business purposes.

Or they could just go to civilised countries instead

Never read such a stupid comment. Who invented it (the car)?

- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: HA server cluster, 0.1PB storage capacity on premise
- IoT: thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D: two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter

TrendMicro

Best TrendMicro deals for antivirus and malware protection(affiliate link).

tdgeek

28627 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3106030 19-Jul-2023 17:53

maoriboy:

I learnt how to drive on a manual way back in my early teens (11 or 12) on my uncles farm. A '3 on the tree' Datsun ute from memory, as well as the various tractors and farm machinery he had. There was also my parents Toyota Corona manual when I was on my learners. They sold that for a Mitsubishi V3000 I believe and that was an auto. Since then I've always driven auto's and while I could probably drive one if my life depended on it, the bunny hopping would be spectacular hahaha. The gist of what I'm saying is that in the 30 or so years I've been driving, the vast majority was in an auto, and I can't see a time when I'd need to drive a manual. With electric vehicles, the uptake to auto will just accelerate this change. I say good on the people who want to learn to drive a manual, but it's not a necessity for the vast majority of people.

I was 11. Fiat Tractor. Dragging a sled we used for spraying. Then a brand new Valiant ute. Heaven! Ok we were just feeding out, but for a kid it was cool.

johno1234

1352 posts

Uber Geek

#3106032 19-Jul-2023 17:55

Tinkerisk:

johno1234:

Renting a car in Europe is probably low on a teenaged learner-driver's priorities. Higher would be the ability to concentrate on situational awareness rather than stressing about stalling the clutch.

Passing the restricted driver's licence is hard. Driving safely and confidently when inexperienced is hard. Don't subject your teenager to additional stress and risk. Once they have a full licence they can learn a manual easily enough if they need to.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to increased accidents. Those who cannot meet the requirements should wait to get their driving licence, otherwise they are a danger to themselves and others. Teenagers do not need to have a car if they CAN'T completely master it from the basic requirements. It is the same with a pilot's licence. If you take the automatic transmission driving licence here, you are allowed to drive vehicles with automatic transmission only. You don't get better driving skills by making the requirements more comfortable.

Are saying that by making the car more complex and difficult to drive that you are making the driver safer? That is nonsensical. Are you saying that a new driver that cannot drive a manual but can drive an automatic is "a danger to themselves and others"? That is borderline idiotic. The licencing tests are quite adequate at determining whether the driver is competent to drive their automatic car.

I have been a pilot. Pilot workload minimisation is a well understood safety objective and attention not spent on complexity is attention available for situational awareness and correct decision making.

If your argument had any merit at all, then the drivers licence test would be mandated to be on manual cars only.

Handle9

9650 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3106033 19-Jul-2023 17:56

Tinkerisk:

Handle9:

Yeah nah.

Being able to use a clutch doesn't inherently make you a better or worse driver than someone driving an automatic.

Then compare the accident statistics and next time rent a manual transmission in our city ... and plan time after arrival for a extra shower. 🙂

Correlation isn't causation. There's a bit more going on than whether it's a manual or automatic.

johno1234

1352 posts

Uber Geek

#3106035 19-Jul-2023 18:02

Tinkerisk:

Handle9:

Yeah nah.

Being able to use a clutch doesn't inherently make you a better or worse driver than someone driving an automatic.

Then compare the accident statistics and next time rent a manual transmission in our city ... and plan time after arrival for a extra shower. 🙂

What statistics? Cite?

First google search off the rank is an insurance company that says automatics are safer:

https://www.ageas.co.uk/solved/your-car/automatic-or-manual-which-type-of-car-is-better/#:~:text=Whether%20it's%20avoiding%20that%20constant,of%20driving%20and%20staying%20safe.&text=Automatics%20are%20less%20susceptible%20to%20driver%20abuse%20than%20a%20manual.

Good point about keeping both hands on the steering wheel for automatics.

Tinkerisk

3076 posts

Uber Geek

#3106037 19-Jul-2023 18:06

Vehicles with automatic registration are classified with a higher insurance premium from the outset, as they are more often involved in accidents. Particularly horsepower cars with kick-down tempt many an unsuitable driver to make reckless manoeuvres that they would never have made under normal circumstances. Therefore, these vehicles are only rented to young people against a deposit or a certain age.

tdgeek

28627 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3106038 19-Jul-2023 18:06

Tinkerisk:

Never read such a stupid comment. Who invented it (the car)?

Agree. I learned to drive at age 11, a tractor then a ute, I was on a farm. Later on a double the clutch Bedford farm truck. Does it make me a"better" driver? No. As I could be inherently stupid. But it does make me a better skilled driver, where I can manage a few more pedals than just the right one. Anyone can floor it, thats the problem.

tdgeek

28627 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3106039 19-Jul-2023 18:10

johno1234:

What statistics? Cite?

First google search off the rank is an insurance company that says automatics are safer:

They are safer to drive as they are simpler. Simpler could be an issue, as simpler means anyone with a right foot can get a licence.

Or may come to developed or learnt skill, or just that you have a right foot.

johno1234

1352 posts

Uber Geek

#3106040 19-Jul-2023 18:14

Tinkerisk:

Vehicles with automatic registration are classified with a higher insurance premium from the outset, as they are more often involved in accidents.

Cite?

Automatics cost more which could lead to a higher premium.

https://www.policybazaar.com/motor-insurance/car-insurance/articles/manual-versus-automatic-car-insurance-effect-on-insurance-premium/

Tinkerisk

3076 posts

Uber Geek

#3106041 19-Jul-2023 18:21

I am referring to our country and the talk was about having to rent or hire a car in a European metropolis that is predominantly equipped with a manual gearbox and the problems that a rural automatic cruising islander then faces.

Jase2985

12354 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3106042 19-Jul-2023 18:24

Tinkerisk:

I am referring to our country and the talk was about having to rent or hire a car in a European metropolis that is predominantly equipped with a manual gearbox and the problems that a rural automatic cruising islander then faces.

provide some evidence to back up your claims please

they sound rather outlandish to those that dont live there

Tinkerisk

3076 posts

Uber Geek

#3106044 19-Jul-2023 18:28

johno1234:

Automatics cost more which could lead …

Here, the insurance premiums are linked to the annual accident rate, not to the purchase price.

tdgeek

28627 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3106045 19-Jul-2023 18:29

Jase2985:

provide some evidence to back up your claims please

they sound rather outlandish to those that dont live there

Cut T some slack. There are posters here that are not in NZ. That doesnt make the post irrelevant. If anything, it provides a global feel to whatever the topic is.

Tinkerisk

3076 posts

Uber Geek

#3106046 19-Jul-2023 18:32

Jase2985:

Tinkerisk:

I am referring to our country and the talk was about having to rent or hire a car in a European metropolis that is predominantly equipped with a manual gearbox and the problems that a rural automatic cruising islander then faces.

provide some evidence to back up your claims please

they sound rather outlandish to those that dont live there

I would have to have access to the statistics of the car rental companies (here), but unfortunately I don't (any more).

If you want to have a general impression of our country, try this: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffic-Accidents/_node.html

SirHumphreyAppleby

2528 posts

Uber Geek

#3106053 19-Jul-2023 18:54

The argument that automatics are easier to drive is begging the question somewhat. I'm not convinced they really are easier to drive. It's a different skill IMO. Some of those automatic rentals I've driven are awful. Sluggish, slow to change gears and completely lacking the fine control a manual offers. Our friend's car that is kept at our place much of the year is the complete opposite... a small press of the accelerator and it's off like a rocket. Personally, I hate the things and feel a distinct lack of control when driving them.

I do want to go full electric, but there is one small distinction there - they (usually) have no gears, eliminating my biggest complaint with automatics.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7