In the market for a replacement car and looking for advice

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › In the market for a replacement car and looking for advice - six+ seats

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#3194634 13-Feb-2024 12:24

Fielder would be too small if looking for a regular six seater, especially with older teens. A 2015 Highlander would fit the requiremts, is actually comfy when has that many passengers, can tow well and also.a Toyota. Else look at Kia Sorrento/Hyundai Santa Fe. I was also anti-SUV but they are the size car you need to be looking at if not for Alphard type.

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#3194651 13-Feb-2024 12:54

Lizard1977: But I've instinctively worried that an older second-hand hybrid is likely to be a bad prospect on account of ageing batteries. How does this pan out in reality?

It's not a practical problem I've ever seen. My Alpha is 2011 with 170kkm bought it around 80kkm. Toyota say life is around 160kkm-240kkm. My impression from forums and the like is the far upper end of that when risk starts. I've spent nothing on the car apart from tires and brake shoes once + the gas recycler thing at 150 maybe due to bad fuel. Fuel consumption remains a very steady 5.1 litres per 100km.

There's a crowd advertising replacement hybrid battery starting from $950. It's not something I worry about.

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#3194653 13-Feb-2024 13:01

Lizard1977: Again, instinctively, I felt that most smaller hybrids (in the 1.5-1.8L band) wouldn't cope well with a towing load.

As far as I'm aware Alpha hybrid aka V hybrid has no tow rating at all. I'm guessing the same for Fielder.

BlakJak

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#3194863 13-Feb-2024 21:50

Lizard1977:

Thanks for those insights.

The suggestion of the Prius V is interesting. I hadn't realised until fairly recently that there was a 7-seater model. But I've instinctively worried that an older second-hand hybrid is likely to be a bad prospect on account of ageing batteries. How does this pan out in reality? For instance, I would imagine that at around 8-10 years the batteries will lose some of their capacity and range, and the benefits of the hybrid would diminish - ultimately ending up as dead-weight that actually worsens fuel economy. Or am I completely wrong.

I've seen a couple of Toyota Fielder hybrid wagons, and they looked like they might be worth a drive. But a towbar is something that is close to essential for me (within my circle I'm the only one with a towbar, so if we ever need to shift something large I'm the one who can get a trailer). Again, instinctively, I felt that most smaller hybrids (in the 1.5-1.8L band) wouldn't cope well with a towing load. Not talking a massive boat or race car here, more a load of waste to take to landfill or a couple of couches and a fridge that a mate needs shifting. It sounds like something like the Toyota Fielder hybrid would struggle to cope with a towbar?

Feilder will be too small if you're wanting >5 seats. Would be cramped for regularly carrying 5, I think.

According to Toyota, Prius can tow, Fielder can't. The tow rating on a Prius will be relatively low but I imagine it'd be something like 750kg which is enough for a garden trailer with a light load - the sorta bulky stuff you're likely to tow routinely.

As for battery life in a Prius, I think the estimate of 160-250K-kms on a battery is fair. Most reviews i've seen note that the life expectancy of Toyota Hybrid batteries is surprisingly good. Mine is now at 104,000 and I havn't noticed any battery problems as such, there's some oddness in terms of the range/capacity measurements against the battery meter from time to time but I do see decent periods of trolling in 50km/h zones or in traffic on the motorway where I can actively keep the petrol engine from starting and that's a win for me.

You won't be breaking speed or performance records if you're used to something with more pep - but it's 'enough' for me most of the time (I spend a decent amount of time in the car on my own or with only one passenger). Yet to heavily load it and towbar isn't yet acquired. But I also figure that I do both things infrequently enough that I can afford to be a little patient occasionally, relative to the combination of all-of-the-other benefits Similar to my approach around AWD/4WD. Whilst it would be nice on the very odd occasion, its so infrequent that it doesn't really factor into the decision-making process (i'm not going to pay the running cost overhead in return for the once or twice a year where it might make a difference in my life)

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Lizard1977

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#3196090 16-Feb-2024 08:58

Thanks for all the replies so far. It's been interesting to read.

I guess I should explain about the whole 6-seater thing. I'm unsure how necessary it is. My partner and I haven't moved in together yet, and that's still about 8 months away, so the number of times we are currently needing to transport all of us aren't great. It may be more once we're all living together. But even then I only have my kids half of any given week, and she only has her kids every other week. So out of any given 14 days, at most there will be seven days in total where we are all under one roof, and even then (with different workplaces and schools) we won't be all in the one car every day. Added to this, my kids are under 10, and her kids are in their teens. By the time my kids are getting too tall for a third row seat on journey's, there's a good chance that her kids will be either driving (and "too cool" to be driven around by parents) or moved out of home (and rarely needing to be driven around). So I guess I'm looking at the six-seat option as a part-time feature or a short-term(ish) solution which might not be so important in about 3 years. For instance, we may be down to 3 kids living at home by then, but the third row might give a little more space when there's five of us driving around.

There is a 2018 Exiga Crosstrek in Auckland which I'm keen to check out next week when I'm there. But the other car I've been looking at lately is the Mazda CX-8 or CX-9. I suspect that neither will be as spacious in the third row as a proper people mover, but I have driven a couple of them and they're quite nice to drive. The later models seem to have a decent spec as well. What is Mazda like for reliability?

The other aspect I've been reading about is diesel vs petrol (in particular, the diesel CX-8 vs the petrol-only CX-9). I've only owned petrol cars, and none of mine have seemed particularly fuel-efficient (my Legacy in particular has been thirsty, but I suspect that is down to the faulty torque converter). The diesel CX-8 claims a fuel economy of between 6 and 7L/100km (compared to this, my Legacy is currently using around 13L/100km combined), whereas the petrol CX-9 is around 10L/100km. I'm not doing massive mileage - around 8000kms/yr. Even with RUC factored in, the diesel seems to be a lot more fuel efficient - between $400 and $450 a year cheaper to run that the petrol CX-9. Is there anything else I need to think about between petrol vs diesel?

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#3196128 16-Feb-2024 10:50

I have just bought a Mazda CX-30, with my previous car being a CX-5, and a Mazda3 prior to that. The only faults I have experienced were a faulty speaker in the 3, and a faulty wing mirror folding motor in the CX-5. Mechanical reliability has been 100% and after sales support has been excellent.

My Mazda3 had the Skyactiv Diesel engine which is rumoured to be troublesome due to a design flaw on early units that caused oil to seep into the crankcase, but I had no problems at all with mine. One thing to keep in mind is that diesel engines require regular open road driving to clear out the particulate filter. This wasn't a problem for me as I really only use my car when I travel out of town.

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#3196251 16-Feb-2024 12:05

alasta:

My Mazda3 had the Skyactiv Diesel engine which is rumoured to be troublesome due to a design flaw on early units that caused oil to seep into the crankcase, but I had no problems at all with mine. One thing to keep in mind is that diesel engines require regular open road driving to clear out the particulate filter. This wasn't a problem for me as I really only use my car when I travel out of town.

Yeah, a second piece of anecdata on this engine: I've read all the same warnings on this, but I had the same one in a Mazda6 wagon we owned for about eight years and never once had any issue with it. It did have a six month service cycle, but I understand the newer ones are 12 months. (Also, only issue I had with the car was the front speakers!)

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#3197456 19-Feb-2024 12:11

Lizard1977:

Thanks for all the replies so far. It's been interesting to read.

I guess I should explain about the whole 6-seater thing. I'm unsure how necessary it is. My partner and I haven't moved in together yet, and that's still about 8 months away, so the number of times we are currently needing to transport all of us aren't great. It may be more once we're all living together. But even then I only have my kids half of any given week, and she only has her kids every other week. So out of any given 14 days, at most there will be seven days in total where we are all under one roof, and even then (with different workplaces and schools) we won't be all in the one car every day. Added to this, my kids are under 10, and her kids are in their teens. By the time my kids are getting too tall for a third row seat on journey's, there's a good chance that her kids will be either driving (and "too cool" to be driven around by parents) or moved out of home (and rarely needing to be driven around). So I guess I'm looking at the six-seat option as a part-time feature or a short-term(ish) solution which might not be so important in about 3 years. For instance, we may be down to 3 kids living at home by then, but the third row might give a little more space when there's five of us driving around.

There is a 2018 Exiga Crosstrek in Auckland which I'm keen to check out next week when I'm there. But the other car I've been looking at lately is the Mazda CX-8 or CX-9. I suspect that neither will be as spacious in the third row as a proper people mover, but I have driven a couple of them and they're quite nice to drive. The later models seem to have a decent spec as well. What is Mazda like for reliability?

The other aspect I've been reading about is diesel vs petrol (in particular, the diesel CX-8 vs the petrol-only CX-9). I've only owned petrol cars, and none of mine have seemed particularly fuel-efficient (my Legacy in particular has been thirsty, but I suspect that is down to the faulty torque converter). The diesel CX-8 claims a fuel economy of between 6 and 7L/100km (compared to this, my Legacy is currently using around 13L/100km combined), whereas the petrol CX-9 is around 10L/100km. I'm not doing massive mileage - around 8000kms/yr. Even with RUC factored in, the diesel seems to be a lot more fuel efficient - between $400 and $450 a year cheaper to run that the petrol CX-9. Is there anything else I need to think about between petrol vs diesel?

There is no perfect answer sadly. Cars with 3 seats in the front row are largely a thing in the past, and regular wagons / liftbacks with a third row are rare these days. Only modern one I can think of is the tesla model S, but it even used it would be out of your price range.

This basically leaves SUV's, fat wagons, Vans and MPV's / .

SUV's is where most buyers in your position end up. Be aware, unless you get into massive stuff, the third row is strictly (smaller) kids only. And the third row consumes most of your boot space (hence why you see so many with roof boxes). Note some can do 50:50 split so you can have a 6th seat and half a boot...

I really like the Toyota highlander. Your budget would get you a 1 generation old one. I drove one of these over 1000km across the south island as a rental car. Perfect car to eat up long distances. powerful, smooth ride, acceptable handling. Fuel consumption was OK on the open road, but sucked in town. Note at 183cm tall I didn't fit in the third row. Of course the latest hybrid one sorts the fuel issue, but that is well out of your price range.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/toyota/highlander/listing/4566966839

Fat wagons are stuff like the prius alpha, honda stream etc. similar deal as the SUV's, with less ground clearance and a less thirsty engine. Third row is for kiddies only, and consumes most of the boot.

Alpha could be a really good bet for you. Great fuel economy (sub 5L/100km), great interior & boot space as a 5 seater, and the ability to fold up an extra seat if needed. I wouldn't have an issue with putting a towbar on for stuff like moving couches.

MPV / Vans.

I would take a look at an odyssey. Still car like (ish), with a bit more space inside.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/honda/odyssey/listing/4479648531

If you want to take 6 people away on holiday, you would be best served with an actual van (i.e. hyundai imax).

On petrol vs diesel, as a general rule, for anything that would use less than about 10L/100km as a petrol, you want petrol. For stuff like utes, larger van's, larger, off road 4x4's you want diesel.

At 8000km/year, petrol is even more attractive. Your annual rego is about $70 cheaper, and your maintance will be cheaper.

Note that mazda has some dud diesel engines (like the one in the CX-5), can't comment on the car you are looking at.

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#3197469 19-Feb-2024 12:45

Toyota Highlander alternative name Toyota Kluger. Both available in hybrid.

caffynz

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#3197475 19-Feb-2024 13:03

Scott3:

Note that mazda has some dud diesel engines (like the one in the CX-5), can't comment on the car you are looking at.

My mechanic (when I asked them a few years back for their opinion on what my next car should be - i.e. which cars did they find realiable, less fixing etc.) said the Diesel Mazda should only be considered if you're doing long drives in the car each time you use it, something about clearing out the particles in the pipe. Whereas the stop-go driving that parents with young children tend to do (e.g. to/from school, or after-school activities in the local area) does not suit the Mazda diesel, not being given enough time. The mechanic WAS finding issues with those cars ONLY where the people using them tended to use them for short distances all the time. Hope this helps.

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#3197483 19-Feb-2024 13:37

caffynz:

Scott3:

Note that mazda has some dud diesel engines (like the one in the CX-5), can't comment on the car you are looking at.

My mechanic (when I asked them a few years back for their opinion on what my next car should be - i.e. which cars did they find realiable, less fixing etc.) said the Diesel Mazda should only be considered if you're doing long drives in the car each time you use it, something about clearing out the particles in the pipe. Whereas the stop-go driving that parents with young children tend to do (e.g. to/from school, or after-school activities in the local area) does not suit the Mazda diesel, not being given enough time. The mechanic WAS finding issues with those cars ONLY where the people using them tended to use them for short distances all the time. Hope this helps.

The issue on the CX-5 diesel engine goes beyond DPF clogging.

But what your say is true. many / most modern diesels need the odd open road run to get burn out buildup from the DPF (some exceptions have a button that allows this to be done at a standstill)

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#3197485 19-Feb-2024 13:47

gzt: Toyota Highlander alternative name Toyota Kluger. Both available in hybrid.

The Kluger (JDM highlander) is likely a bit old, for what OP is looking for with a $25k budget. Most modern one on trademe is 2006. I don't think they were sold after that in japan.

On the Highlander badged cars, toyota NZ only started offering them as a hybrid in 2021. Great spec sheet (184kW AWD, 2000kg towing, rated 6.2L/100km on 91 Ron.

On the Kluger, the drivetrain as my 2006 Lexus RX400h (5 seater), Mine is 200kW awd, 1500kg tow rating. It gets 8 - 9L/100km real world (95ron). Really smooth and nice car.

Lizard1977

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#3197497 19-Feb-2024 14:49

Thanks for that. Really useful info about the diesel engines as well. I had read a comment elsewhere about the need for occasional open road driving but wasn't sure how big a deal it would be. I take a trip to auckland from Palmy once or twice a year, and maybe a trip out to the Hawke's Bay or Wellington once or twice a year too. Probably only hitting the open road every 2-3 months on average.

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#3197562 19-Feb-2024 15:23

All modern diesels have particulate filters, and could become problematic if you do a lot of urban driving without doing about 20 minutes at highway speeds at least every couple of weeks.

It was never a problem with mine, but I drive out of town every couple of months and the car gets minimal use in the interim.

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#3197612 19-Feb-2024 17:29

alasta:

I have just bought a Mazda CX-30, with my previous car being a CX-5, and a Mazda3 prior to that. The only faults I have experienced were a faulty speaker in the 3, and a faulty wing mirror folding motor in the CX-5. Mechanical reliability has been 100% and after sales support has been excellent.

My Mazda3 had the Skyactiv Diesel engine which is rumoured to be troublesome due to a design flaw on early units that caused oil to seep into the crankcase, but I had no problems at all with mine. One thing to keep in mind is that diesel engines require regular open road driving to clear out the particulate filter. This wasn't a problem for me as I really only use my car when I travel out of town.

The only problem I had was a faulty infotainment system. It would freeze or lag, or fail to boot intermittently on startup. They ended up replacing a module in it which fixed it, but it was frustrating to get it resolved as they thought firmware updates would fix it, which didn't. But come across other owners who had have had similar issues with it. The other issue is the 6 month service cycle when it is 12 months overseas is another annoyance. I would buy another mazda again though. Japanese made cars such as Toyotas (Lexus) and Mazdas are the two brands I would buy these days for the reliability and things just work and keep working.

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