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930 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1351164 24-Jul-2015 13:52
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nzkiwiman: 90% of what I purchase cannot be found in local stores

If they don't bring it into the country, then retailers can't complain they are missing out


OR its priced out of the market.
I imported 20 x 7W LED E27 lamps to my door step from China for NZ$10 each, at the time locally they wanted in excess of NZ$60, saving myself about NZ$1000.

Likewise books, I buy them from the UK, often come with free shipping and work out a damn sight cheaper.

Same with my Oscilloscope, saved over NZ$600 by importing it myself (even after I paid GST on it), same with the logic analyser, sig-gen, hand tools, etc etc.

All my Arduino stuff has been half price or less.

And it looks like it may be worth me importing a heap more stuff soon just in case the government gets stupid ideas.

At work we import our Heat-shrink (costs about 1/3-1/2 of NZ electrical whole sale price), PID temperature controllers (NZ$20), Resistors/Caps/Transistors/etc all much cheaper (and in some cases we buy 1 of instead of the NZ importer demanding we buy minimum of 1000).





199 posts

Master Geek


  # 1351304 24-Jul-2015 19:30
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JimmyH: I don't have a problem paying GST. For the small amount I purchase offshore, NZ retailers are so ludicrously uncompetitive that it wouldn't change my purchasing habits at all. However:

 

  • They would need to make it very easy to pay GST if they want to collect it on small amounts. I don't want to have shipments delayed by weeks and have to jump through a lot of hoops to pay (say) a $3.75 GST bill on a $25 item. Something like I register once and get a unique user code and password, I get an emailed when a package arrives for me, and can pay it through a web portal with the package automagically released.
  • They need to do away with the ridiculous flat-rate biosecurity levy that they charge on top, or at least make it proportional to the risk and value of the package. I do object to paying a $20 biosecurity levy, on top of the $3.75 GST, for my $25 item.
It wouldn't alter my overseas buying habits either - if NZ retailers want my business they need a point of difference. They could start with some product knowledge and service, god forbid.

JimmyH: It would almost be worth it to finally stop the incessant whining from uncompetitive retailers.


Amen to that! They sure can bleat. It's like they think they're owed a living.


JimmyH: However, it does seem a bit nuts to charge GST on small value items, where it would cost them more to collect it than they would get.


Nuts you say? I'm sure it'll be pushed through promptly then.

 
 
 
 


15029 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1351331 24-Jul-2015 19:57
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sir1963:
nzkiwiman: 90% of what I purchase cannot be found in local stores

If they don't bring it into the country, then retailers can't complain they are missing out


OR its priced out of the market.
I imported 20 x 7W LED E27 lamps to my door step from China for NZ$10 each, at the time locally they wanted in excess of NZ$60, saving myself about NZ$1000.

Likewise books, I buy them from the UK, often come with free shipping and work out a damn sight cheaper.

Same with my Oscilloscope, saved over NZ$600 by importing it myself (even after I paid GST on it), same with the logic analyser, sig-gen, hand tools, etc etc.

All my Arduino stuff has been half price or less.

And it looks like it may be worth me importing a heap more stuff soon just in case the government gets stupid ideas.

At work we import our Heat-shrink (costs about 1/3-1/2 of NZ electrical whole sale price), PID temperature controllers (NZ$20), Resistors/Caps/Transistors/etc all much cheaper (and in some cases we buy 1 of instead of the NZ importer demanding we buy minimum of 1000).






Some retailers are basically just buying the same items on ebay or similar Chinese websites, and are just the middleman, selling at an inflated price to NZ customers. They do have to provide CGA protection though, so if you are paying GST on an imported good, you don't get any CGA protection, which you do if you buy from a middleman retailer. So that extra margin that retailers get does have to cover refunds etc or replacing an item, so they have to make sure they are importing good quality goods. I guess the same applies with making sure they meet NZ standards. eg, that the goods don't contain lead paint or asbestos etc.

472 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1351546 25-Jul-2015 12:16
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Would i have to pay GST on second hand goods. I.E. wanted a 4 Port NIC card, TM cheapest was 200 not inc post. Ebay 100NZD inc post. These were not new items. 




Balm its gone!


5136 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 1351558 25-Jul-2015 12:36
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waikariboy: Would i have to pay GST on second hand goods. I.E. wanted a 4 Port NIC card, TM cheapest was 200 not inc post. Ebay 100NZD inc post. These were not new items. 


yes

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  # 1351559 25-Jul-2015 12:38
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mattwnz:
ajobbins: They reckon it will bring in about $600m in revenue, but cost in excess of $2bn to administer...


If they get rid of the CEOs and senior staff on high wages, and don't built themselves tax payer palaces, they could do it cheaper I bet.
Really this is only a problem when the NZ dollar is strong. But as it has weakened a lot, people are buying a less stuff overseas now, as the weak NZ dollar has put the price up alot.


not sure how this works

everyone is affected by a weaker NZ dollar.  Whether you are a private importer, or a retailer buying from a distributor that is sourcing overseas.  (assuming distributor hasn't taken out NZD hedging)

15029 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1351593 25-Jul-2015 14:09
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nathan:
mattwnz:
ajobbins: They reckon it will bring in about $600m in revenue, but cost in excess of $2bn to administer...


If they get rid of the CEOs and senior staff on high wages, and don't built themselves tax payer palaces, they could do it cheaper I bet.
Really this is only a problem when the NZ dollar is strong. But as it has weakened a lot, people are buying a less stuff overseas now, as the weak NZ dollar has put the price up alot.


not sure how this works

everyone is affected by a weaker NZ dollar.  Whether you are a private importer, or a retailer buying from a distributor that is sourcing overseas.  (assuming distributor hasn't taken out NZD hedging)


Generally NZ retailers margins / profit will stay around the same level, so even if they put their price up due to the exchange rate, it shouldn't go up as much in proportion . Eg their profit margin shouldn't also increase due a change in the exchange rate, although some probably will. But yes, some will also use hedging. But not only that, but some retailers don't modify their pricing with exchange rate differences, and have their pricing based on when the NZ dollar was a lot weaker. So when it strengthens, their margin increases, and when it weakens, it decreases.

 
 
 
 


199 posts

Master Geek


  # 1351646 25-Jul-2015 17:03
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mattwnz: Some retailers are basically just buying the same items on ebay or similar Chinese websites, and are just the middleman, selling at an inflated price to NZ customers. They do have to provide CGA protection though, so if you are paying GST on an imported good, you don't get any CGA protection, which you do if you buy from a middleman retailer. So that extra margin that retailers get does have to cover refunds etc or replacing an item, so they have to make sure they are importing good quality goods. I guess the same applies with making sure they meet NZ standards. eg, that the goods don't contain lead paint or asbestos etc.


That's fine for high value goods but doesn't really apply to what is already below the threshold for collection of GST now. What's more, that's the retailer's risk to manage and doesn't explain some of the exceptional mark-ups over what goods can be imported privately for. Sure, some is accounted for by economies of scale of overseas suppliers and their physical retail premises but they should be moving away or at least downscaling from that business model for many retail industries anyway, as it's clearly dying. And that's a good thing IMO - I utterly despise shopping malls.

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  # 1351653 25-Jul-2015 17:11
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Local businesses are only making token efforts to sell online. Other than mightyape I cant think of any I can rely on to get my stuff the same or next day. Some like warehouse and supercheap sometimes take up to a week before the stuff arrives at my house.




Richard rich.ms

160 posts

Master Geek


  # 1351704 25-Jul-2015 19:23
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Boy wants white football shorts, wife visits 4 shops at lunch time and no luck. Sportsdirect had them for $7, bought a couple as I couldn't find any online from a N Z website. NZ online shopping experience has been quite poor other than mighty ape and have pretty much given up.

1285 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1351710 25-Jul-2015 19:54
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mattwnz: Some retailers are basically just buying the same items on ebay or similar Chinese websites, and are just the middleman, selling at an inflated price to NZ customers.


Well, that's how profit works and especially for a really very VERY small market like NZ it stands to reason that even the local retailers of this cheap stuff are not getting much better prices than available to retail customers going direct via Aliexpress etc...

But it's not all roses as you pointed out.  As a small TM seller of stuff from china myself, lots of stuff comes out of that gross profit... returns, refunds, stock loss (even lost in post comes under CGA now, and getting a refund out of post/courier is usually more trouble than it's worth :-/), shipments damaged on arrival, or not meeting specs, the cost of holding stock, ACC, Income Tax, currency fluctuations, various business expense, and at some point if they're lucky, enough left over to pay myself something approaching pocket money.

Then add in the crazy people you have to deal with on and off, the ones who complain about you charging $2.70 for P&P but sending it with $2.40 of stamps and demanding a refund, the ones who complain that their standard post item from Chch to Auck didn't arrive overnight (or the afternoon on the day they bought it), the ones who want a returned-to-sender package resent to the same address again, for free, the ones who don't know their business doesn't get postal service and complain when it doesn't arrive...  my TM blacklist and email kill file sadly grow with some frequency.

The bright side is, I get to have a pile of useful or interesting electronic components stock on hand for when I get inspired, and I get to help out people who need similar components but not wait a month for a package from China that may or may not arrive and be usable, and hopefully I can provide better support.

Ergh, that got a bit rambly off topic, but I've typed it now, seems a waste to delete it.






---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


418 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1351724 25-Jul-2015 21:02
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Don't you currently have to pay GST on everything imported into NZ over $50 bucks? 

(Well except for the many overseas retaillers that falsely declare as gifts)

Or is australia an exception?

I think it's probably only fair. NZ retaillers have to pay GST both on the cost and the profit, as well as income tax and whatever other overheads. If we don't properly charge GST on imports (and we aren't anyway), then we are favoring overseas  business over local business. We are a small country with a small economy, and if our laws favour overseas economies, we are shooting everyone in the foot. 





Tap That - Great cheap tablets and tablet accessories. Windows and Android, NZ based

418 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1351725 25-Jul-2015 21:07
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Well, that's how profit works and especially for a really very VERY small market like NZ it stands to reason that even the local retailers of this cheap stuff are not getting much better prices than available to retail customers going direct via Aliexpress etc...



No that's exactly right. Small businesses are not the 'robbers'. There are taxes (very high), services like banks and so on, insurance, marketing - everyone 'bigger' takes a cut of any small business. The majority of money made on any small margin enterprise is the govt, followed by big corporate service agencies. If this were a tax and overhead low world, the prices would be lower in NZ retail, simple as that.  The overheads are simply higher than the consumer realises. 

The cost price without very bulk volume is not that much better than international retail. That however comes at a advantage -

The thing is though, you buy something from aliexpress, you might get the wrong product, the wrong service, wait for two months to get it, or have it break on its own within two weeks of getting it. You might get things cheaper on the international market, but you have to make sacrifices to do so. Consumers should be aware they are making that choice, between legal protection, service, liability etc versus price. 




Tap That - Great cheap tablets and tablet accessories. Windows and Android, NZ based

418 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1351726 25-Jul-2015 21:13
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nathan:
mattwnz:
ajobbins: They reckon it will bring in about $600m in revenue, but cost in excess of $2bn to administer...


If they get rid of the CEOs and senior staff on high wages, and don't built themselves tax payer palaces, they could do it cheaper I bet.
Really this is only a problem when the NZ dollar is strong. But as it has weakened a lot, people are buying a less stuff overseas now, as the weak NZ dollar has put the price up alot.


not sure how this works

everyone is affected by a weaker NZ dollar.  Whether you are a private importer, or a retailer buying from a distributor that is sourcing overseas.  (assuming distributor hasn't taken out NZD hedging)


Unless you have a warehouse full of stock, absolutely true. Most businesses work with small margins. And that leaves very little room to wiggle when is comes to changes in cost. 




Tap That - Great cheap tablets and tablet accessories. Windows and Android, NZ based

160 posts

Master Geek


  # 1351727 25-Jul-2015 21:14
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I would say most consumers are aware when they purchase products overseas. The money saved allows for things to go wrong every once and a while. I have had great customer service from the likes of Amazon and others, probably better than some local experiences.

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