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EzyE
15 posts

Geek


  #2051260 7-Jul-2018 22:35
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surfisup1000:

 

Should I buy these exercise weights ....

 

 

Who can get a better shipping discount without incurring import fees?

 

This just has to be an error. 

 

 

 

 

Which are you looking at?


Nil Einne
450 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2051265 7-Jul-2018 22:55
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Note that there seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation out there about SMR hard disks. Any 8TB hard disk is either SMR or helium with 7 or so platters. If you have a bare hard disk, you can guess how many platters it is by the weight. Well if it's WD it could be MAMR, but I don't know if you're likely to find them in externals. If someone had managed to achieve the densities required to be able to put 8TB on classic PMR platters, I'm fairly sure we would have heard of them so I'm fairly sure they don't exist.

 

A lot of people incorrectly assume their drives are not SMR as they are able to consistently write them at high speeds. Possibly some of the earliest SMR hard disks were really that bad that you could not do so, but newer ones, including newer archives ones aren't generally like that. 

 

I have a ~2 year old Seagate Archive HD, I bought it as an internal. I'm able to write multiple TB to it at 100MB/s+. It is however most definitely an SMR hard disk. I am able to trigger the classical SMR slow down, I think by writing multiple different things at the same time and possibly deleting stuff. (I admit I didn't test it that well.) 

 

I have one of those Seagate Hub 8TB Apple version (white colour) that I bought from Amazon during last year's Black Friday. Internally I think it is a ST8000DM004-2CX188 as this is what it reports. (I never opened it up.) If you look into it there is a lot of misinformation including some people saying it is TGMR not SMR. The first part is undoubtedly true, as are I think all modern hard disks are TGMR. But the second part is not, it's not an either/or. 

 

I can say with confidence that the hard drive I received uses SMR platters since I am able to reliably trigger the SMR slow down using a certain combination of HDtune tests. It basically almost stops to the extent it may seem unresponsive and takes 40 minutes+ to recover and then starts acting normally again until I trigger it again. Partitioning it in Windows, I've found it a lot more difficult to trigger the SMR slow down although I haven't really tried that hard since I lack good tools. I have managed to get it to basically completely stop but I think this is only just after I've been doing HDtune stuff. Possibly sometimes it does slow down quite a bit without stopping I'm not totally sure. I've done this by writing multiple files including small files to it at the same time and also deleting stuff. 

 

As with the Archive drive, writing multiple TB to in largish files sequentially is not a problem. I can get 100MB/s+. (For a simple test in Windows with the drive empty and NTFS formatted, 5.02 TB took about 705 minutes to transfer i.e. about 124 MB/s And I think it may have been limited by the read drive at times.) 

 

From what I've read and common sense, I think Seagate is using a combination of PMR caches and smart firmware management to reduce SMR problems. I guess they have gotten better at it with experience. (To be fair, I did read someone on Reddit claiming problems with new Archive HDs recently and they even said they'd had no problems before. I'm not sure what this is about, the details were unclear except they had 24 of them.) It's also possible Windows has gotten better at using SMR HDs. 

 

I still wouldn't recommend them for a RAID array (especially since RAID arrays may use them in a manner their firmware isn't designed to handle). Nor for an OS disk if you're still using a HD for that. And any application where you require reliable performance or will have significant problems. However for more general data storage, I suspect most people are barely going to notice they are SMR hard disks even if writing multiple TBs and or using them like normal i.e. sometimes deleting stuff etc. 


 
 
 
 


surfisup1000

4874 posts

Uber Geek


  #2051292 8-Jul-2018 09:51
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Nil Einne:

 

Note that there seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation out there about SMR hard disks. Any 8TB hard disk is either SMR or helium with 7 or so platters. If you have a bare hard disk, you can guess how many platters it is by the weight. Well if it's WD it could be MAMR, but I don't know if you're likely to find them in externals. If someone had managed to achieve the densities required to be able to put 8TB on classic PMR platters, I'm fairly sure we would have heard of them so I'm fairly sure they don't exist.

 

 

I have several of these 'archive drives' (always buy drives in pairs for backup reasons). 

 

For general desktop use/storage, they've been great. I haven't experienced the slow downs you mention. Even encrypting the entire 8tb drive was pretty quick, starting at around 180MB/s, dropping to around 150MB/s as is normal for drives as the write heads move across the platters. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


driller2000
808 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2051298 8-Jul-2018 10:03
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richms:

 

driller2000:

 

Batman: How hard is it to remove the hdd from the enclosure?

 

 

 

2 mins work...i removed one of the 8TB drives to put in my unRAID server. Saved myself $150+ - and I had to pay shipping.

 

 

 

EDIT: So yeah - got another one - you can never have too much storage right?

 

 

Its not an archive one is it? I was disappointed when pulling my last 2 seagate 8tbs apart to find one of those. Made a mirror pair for my music collection to use them since that never sees much write action.

 

 

Sorry I did only had a cursory look - and don't recall the type/speed.

 

That said - in my unRAID server it pretty much is Archive anyway ie. TV, movies, photos and music. And I can play the same 4k file on multiple players simultaneously over my cat5 newtrok - so they work for my purpose.

 

 


larknz
353 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2051337 8-Jul-2018 10:38
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All this discussion about hard drives seems to be a bit off topic.

allio
679 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2051501 8-Jul-2018 14:16
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larknz: All this discussion about hard drives seems to be a bit off topic.

 

Agreed - Amazon is offering free shipping on cast iron dutch ovens, table tennis tables and weight sets and you guys are talking about hard drives? Normal shipping on those things is like six bucks, get your eyes on the prize :p


toejam316
992 posts

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  #2051528 8-Jul-2018 15:36
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Anyone seen any particularly good deals on general goods? I've been eyeballing a couple of the cast iron enameled pans and dutch ovens, can't have too many of those.





Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.


 
 
 
 


prob
111 posts

Master Geek


  #2051545 8-Jul-2018 16:38
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I have a SSD SATA M.2 drive in my basket. I checked just now and I am being offered free carriage.

 

Delivery is estimated at 1 August, so not fast. 

 

Excellent.

 

The total delivered price is about $20 than PB Tech. 


richms
23680 posts

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  #2051588 8-Jul-2018 17:09
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prob:

 

I have a SSD SATA M.2 drive in my basket. I checked just now and I am being offered free carriage.

 

Delivery is estimated at 1 August, so not fast. 

 

Excellent.

 

The total delivered price is about $20 than PB Tech. 

 

 

For that small saving, I would just go to PB tech instead. I have bought a few more inch drill bits and even an inch tape measure and didnt get free shipping on it, I guess because it was under $100. Was cheap enough tho so not worth the cost of going to the reshipper and paying to consolodate with other things that will be on their way to me soon.





Richard rich.ms

surfisup1000

4874 posts

Uber Geek


  #2051592 8-Jul-2018 17:12
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toejam316:

 

Anyone seen any particularly good deals on general goods? I've been eyeballing a couple of the cast iron enameled pans and dutch ovens, can't have too many of those.

 

 

Good thinking. 

 

Lodge cast iron products are good....for some reason local prices are very high , amazon is half the nz price on some items. 

 

eg, 

 

Lodge L10SK3ASH41B

 

 


allio
679 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2051610 8-Jul-2018 17:55
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toejam316:

 

Anyone seen any particularly good deals on general goods? I've been eyeballing a couple of the cast iron enameled pans and dutch ovens, can't have too many of those.

 

 

I've spent a few hours today researching round enamelled cast iron dutch ovens. The best deals that I can see are the AmazonBasics 6 quart ($45) and 7.5 quart ($60), and the Lodge 7.5 quart ($80). All free shipping if your order exceeds $100.

 

The Lodge 6 quart ($55) is by far the most recommended but annoyingly doesn't ship here. Cuisinart 5 quart ($61) and 7 quart ($71) also good value and recommended but the Amazon reviews are offputting.

 

I will likely take a punt on the AmazonBasics 6 quart. At $65 NZD shipped, it's cheaper than a crappy smaller Briscoes one at 60% off.

 

Grr, while typing this post it went out of stock...


dazhann
425 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  #2051614 8-Jul-2018 18:07
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OMG we've gone from hard drives to dutch ovens lol


ilovemusic
1326 posts

Uber Geek


  #2052007 9-Jul-2018 13:48
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hio77:

 

Free? after they just removed standard? what?

 

 

 

 

standard shipping to nz was re-instated a few weeks ago.


TechnoGuy001
595 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2052072 9-Jul-2018 15:12
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I just got one of the Seagate 5TB drives, like $100 cheaper than local. Just one question, I ordered some stuff from Amazon a few days ago too, but it's waiting on stock and probably won't ship till about when my 5TB drive does, which will make the total of ~$420ish, which might trigger the import tax/duty no?

 

 

 

They are 2 separate orders, and Amazon estimated $0 for tax on both orders, but there is a maybe 70% chance they both enter NZ at the same time, would that mean I will need to pay the NZ import tax?


loceff13
885 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2052078 9-Jul-2018 15:23
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I thought atleast in the past if customs didn't agree with the shipping value(ie these large items for free) they can come up with their own quote and charge the GST on that etc..


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