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96 posts

Master Geek
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  # 1151877 11-Oct-2014 16:33
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pchs
 I suspect you will find that most ISP's spend a significant amount of time to ensure that their networks are running at optimal performance, but do you have any evidence they don't?


I never said anything that would contradict that point.  Are you asserting that "optimal performance" means "minimum latency to a few specific sites"?

If I give all the details, The Other Guys will copy it, as we are being accused of copying Global Mode.  Though MyRepublic launched "Teleport" in Singapore before I can find references to Global Mode in NZ.  https://www.slingshot.co.nz/news  Slingshot's site indicates a July 2014 launch for Global Mode and http://www.techgoondu.com/2013/03/02/myrepublic-unveils-vpn-like-service-for-video-streaming/ indicates a March 2013 date for the MyRepublic equivalent.  So if I give all the details as I know them, it'd be a year before The Other Guys do the same thing, or otherwise use the details against us.

The simple fact is, BGP uses hop count above latency for route preference.  So a "pure" BGP interconnect without "manual" adjustments will have worse latency performance than one manually optimized.

Who do you know in NZ that monitors and tracks latency through upstream networks, and modifies their network for the lowest total latency?  Everyone else says "not our network, not our problem," Right?  So when someone comes along that looks into the Internet to optimize for conditions outside their network, how would that indicate we think anyone else is running their network poorly?  They run "their network" just fine, they just don't make changes in their network to improve user experience for outside sites in the same way we do.

Regards,
Marc Whinery
Senior Product Manager, MyRepublic

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  # 1151878 11-Oct-2014 16:37
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Whinery: If I give all the details, The Other Guys will copy it, as we are being accused of copying Global Mode.  Though MyRepublic launched "Teleport" in Singapore before I can find references to Global Mode in NZ.  https://www.slingshot.co.nz/news  Slingshot's site indicates a July 2014 launch for Global Mode and http://www.techgoondu.com/2013/03/02/myrepublic-unveils-vpn-like-service-for-video-streaming/ indicates a March 2013 date for the MyRepublic equivalent.

Fyx had Global Mode in May 2012, although it didn't last very long.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1151904 11-Oct-2014 17:38
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Behodar:
Whinery: If I give all the details, The Other Guys will copy it, as we are being accused of copying Global Mode.  Though MyRepublic launched "Teleport" in Singapore before I can find references to Global Mode in NZ.  https://www.slingshot.co.nz/news  Slingshot's site indicates a July 2014 launch for Global Mode and http://www.techgoondu.com/2013/03/02/myrepublic-unveils-vpn-like-service-for-video-streaming/ indicates a March 2013 date for the MyRepublic equivalent.

Fyx had Global Mode in May 2012, although it didn't last very long.

Slingshot had it for about a year before they formally announced it.

10 seconds of Google showed it was June 2013 that slingshot launched it.

Regardless, if you claim yours is different or better somehow, you need to substantiate that claim. You do t have to say how you do it, but you do have to demonstrate the difference.

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Master Geek
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  # 1151937 11-Oct-2014 19:27
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Whinery:
pchs
 I suspect you will find that most ISP's spend a significant amount of time to ensure that their networks are running at optimal performance, but do you have any evidence they don't?


I never said anything that would contradict that point.  Are you asserting that "optimal performance" means "minimum latency to a few specific sites"?

If I give all the details, The Other Guys will copy it, as we are being accused of copying Global Mode.  Though MyRepublic launched "Teleport" in Singapore before I can find references to Global Mode in NZ.  https://www.slingshot.co.nz/news  Slingshot's site indicates a July 2014 launch for Global Mode and http://www.techgoondu.com/2013/03/02/myrepublic-unveils-vpn-like-service-for-video-streaming/ indicates a March 2013 date for the MyRepublic equivalent.  So if I give all the details as I know them, it'd be a year before The Other Guys do the same thing, or otherwise use the details against us.

The simple fact is, BGP uses hop count above latency for route preference.  So a "pure" BGP interconnect without "manual" adjustments will have worse latency performance than one manually optimized.

Who do you know in NZ that monitors and tracks latency through upstream networks, and modifies their network for the lowest total latency?  Everyone else says "not our network, not our problem," Right?  So when someone comes along that looks into the Internet to optimize for conditions outside their network, how would that indicate we think anyone else is running their network poorly?  They run "their network" just fine, they just don't make changes in their network to improve user experience for outside sites in the same way we do.

Regards,
Marc Whinery
Senior Product Manager, MyRepublic


How though can you make changes in your upstream routing when you only have a single upstream provider? which other route apart from them (Vocus) can you take? can you give an example of somewhere that you have better routing than any other NZ ISP too? (even just 1 example?) 

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Master Geek
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  # 1151965 11-Oct-2014 20:02
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NonprayingMantis: 
Regardless, if you claim yours is different or better somehow, you need to substantiate that claim. You do t have to say how you do it, but you do have to demonstrate the difference.


We have a 3 month trial.  Free signup ($50 bond on the router), 3 months free service.  Quit at the end and return the router and you get 3 months for free. Try it and tell me what you think of it.

That's the demonstration of the difference.

Nobody else has ever done that in NZ (that I've seen).  The other guys have done a 12 month contract with 25% off.  But if you quit one month into your 3 free months with them, you were hit with a disconnect penalty of your "free" service.  We have no disconnect fees in the trial.  It's an actual trial, not a confusingly worded discount.

So, are you going to sign up? Because that's the best demonstration I can think of.

Regards,
Marc Whinery
Senior Product Manager, MyRepublic

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  # 1151967 11-Oct-2014 20:09
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Can't you get a free month trial on BigPipe Broadband as well at the moment? I'm pretty sure they're heavy on the "no contracts" value.




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Master Geek
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  # 1151988 11-Oct-2014 20:26
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pchs: 
How though can you make changes in your upstream routing when you only have a single upstream provider? which other route apart from them (Vocus) can you take? can you give an example of somewhere that you have better routing than any other NZ ISP too? (even just 1 example?) 


I'm not going to give away trade secrets here.  My previous answer was complete and accurate, even if you don't like it.

It's new.  It's different.  You don't have to fear and hate new and different just because it's new and different and you might not understand everything about it.  Try it and tell us what you think of it.  In the end, hasn't the NZ market taught us that it's not about the claims, but about the performance?

So test it, rather than slamming it.  Once we've been in market for 5 years or so, I'm sure someone would have reverse engineered everything we do that's interesting, and at that point I'll probably be able to share all the gory details, and you'll probably be pretty disappointed.  It's all pretty simple stuff.  It's just that nobody else has done it.  But once the others figure it out, they'll copy it, but by then, people will have been using our service for years, and the difference in peak-time performance and such will be obvious, and we won't need any "gimmicks" to catch the attention of people.  But for a new-launch, the newst ISP in NZ, and the only fibre-only ISP in NZ, we needed some catchy things to help get enough people on so that the forums here will be filled with customer reviews, rather than questions about minutia.

So don't worry about how it works, just whether it works.  After all, isn't that the real measure?

Regards,
Marc Whinery

 
 
 
 


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Master Geek
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  # 1151989 11-Oct-2014 20:27
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Double post, edited out to save space.

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  # 1151992 11-Oct-2014 20:32
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Whinery:
pchs: 
How though can you make changes in your upstream routing when you only have a single upstream provider? which other route apart from them (Vocus) can you take? can you give an example of somewhere that you have better routing than any other NZ ISP too? (even just 1 example?) 


I'm not going to give away trade secrets here.  My previous answer was complete and accurate, even if you don't like it.

It's new.  It's different.  You don't have to fear and hate new and different just because it's new and different and you might not understand everything about it.  Try it and tell us what you think of it.  In the end, hasn't the NZ market taught us that it's not about the claims, but about the performance?

So test it, rather than slamming it.  Once we've been in market for 5 years or so, I'm sure someone would have reverse engineered everything we do that's interesting, and at that point I'll probably be able to share all the gory details, and you'll probably be pretty disappointed.  It's all pretty simple stuff.  It's just that nobody else has done it.  But once the others figure it out, they'll copy it, but by then, people will have been using our service for years, and the difference in peak-time performance and such will be obvious, and we won't need any "gimmicks" to catch the attention of people.  But for a new-launch, the newst ISP in NZ, and the only fibre-only ISP in NZ, we needed some catchy things to help get enough people on so that the forums here will be filled with customer reviews, rather than questions about minutia.

So don't worry about how it works, just whether it works.  After all, isn't that the real measure?

Regards,
Marc Whinery


Yes, but you'll probably soon get to know, people on Geekzone love to know about the very fine details about how things work, just because we are Geeks! :-) Please don't take it that we're against you or anything..




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  # 1151998 11-Oct-2014 20:55
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Hi Marc, I already have fiber installed. Look I'm interested to trial this. But I'm moving out in a couple of months. Haven't found a place yet but it is likely I may not get fiber at the new place. Are you interested for me to be your customer and trial this?





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  # 1151999 11-Oct-2014 20:59
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So according to the MyRepublic's address checker, I'm in the coverage - Christchurch. I'm on Vodafone Cable at the moment, I am curious the performance difference between the two. Plus the Fibre TV service by MyRepublic.




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  # 1152050 11-Oct-2014 22:54
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Whinery:

The simple fact is, BGP uses hop count above latency for route preference.  So a "pure" BGP interconnect without "manual" adjustments will have worse latency performance than one manually optimized.



With only one upstream (being Vocus), really keen to understand how you are doing manual adjustments on your routes to improve gaming.

http://bgp.he.net/AS133579#_graph4


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1152064 12-Oct-2014 00:43
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Sounddude:With only one upstream (being Vocus), really keen to understand how you are doing manual adjustments on your routes to improve gaming.
http://bgp.he.net/AS133579#_graph4



I was going to make the same comment, though it's possible Vocus have improved their game through the use of BGP communities.

Whinery: Who do you know in NZ that monitors and tracks latency through upstream networks, and modifies their network for the lowest total latency?


We've got two upstream providers that obsess over performance, which includes latency as an indicator. Our providers welcome client-driven initiatives and as far as I'm aware we're the only ISP which has a dedicated BGP upstream for Netflix traffic.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=159&topicid=141007

Whinery: Everyone else says "not our network, not our problem," Right?


Everyone else who? I don't know many operators with that attitude?

Whinery: They run "their network" just fine, they just don't make changes in their network to improve user experience for outside sites in the same way we do.


You haven't told us what you do differently so I can't comment but I absolutely refute the idea that all your competitors aren't in the business of creating great user experiences and therefore what you're doing is unique.

Just scrolling through twitter looking at tweets from your Singapore customers indicate you haven't got a magic bullet in place.

https://twitter.com/search?q=myrepublic&src=sprv

Sorry I know this is a negative post but you can't jump on existing turf and make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims.

I welcome you as a player in the market, it's nice to have an additional operator who has "built their network from the ground up for UFB" :)

EDIT: Up late, spotted a typo.

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1152070 12-Oct-2014 02:53
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Sounddude:
Whinery:

The simple fact is, BGP uses hop count above latency for route preference.  So a "pure" BGP interconnect without "manual" adjustments will have worse latency performance than one manually optimized.



With only one upstream (being Vocus), really keen to understand how you are doing manual adjustments on your routes to improve gaming.

http://bgp.he.net/AS133579#_graph4




Maybe VPN.
Maybe a proxy.


Can help to workaround what would otherwise be larger hop counts.

A VPN to the U.S might in some cases yield a lower ping to end point game servers, as opposed to normal paths (example).








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http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

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Master Geek
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  # 1152073 12-Oct-2014 06:40
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myfullflavour:
Our providers welcome client-driven initiatives and as far as I'm aware we're the only ISP which has a dedicated BGP upstream for Netflix traffic.


Why would one need a dedicated connection for Netflix, if one hosts Akami CDN, which Netflix uses?  The streaming providers, like Netflix, Hulu, and BBC (whether accidentally or deliberately) built their delivery about the best possible for people to circumvent location blocking.  The web page and authentication parts of the service are unrelated to the content delivery.  So they have no restrictions on where the content is delivered. It can be (and is) stored all over the world for local access.

Yes, a dedicated Netflix connection would shave a few ms off web page loading when someone goes to the web site.  But unlike gaming, most people don't notice a few ms here and there with web pages.  But with local CDN nodes, the US streaming content will be served locally.  You don't need to go to the US to get the content if you already have a copy in NZ.

That will reduce buffering and improve playback performance more than a dedicated link to Netflix that has to travel 10,000km.

As an aside, it confuses a non-SI person that the SI units are not used properly in supposedly SI countries.  By Metric System convention, Netflix is about 10 Mm away.  But that's always said as 10 000 km.  Can someone explain that one?

Regards,
Marc Whinery
Senior Product Manager, MyRepublic

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