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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1347350 19-Jul-2015 20:46
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If all providers are selling the same service then there is little to bind us customers to any one ISP. If there's no point of difference there is nothing to be lost by jumping ship. Like some of the posters, I joined my ISP (orcon) for the global mode. Now it's going, I can vote with my feet and find an ISP with a NZ based call centre that answers their phone faster.

cest la vie.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1347355 19-Jul-2015 20:52
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This really needed to go to court. Why did no one have the guts to at least attempt to fight them.

It's not fair on us

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1347366 19-Jul-2015 21:06
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Yeah, I'm just waiting out my contract and tossing up between Full Flavour and whatever 2DegreeSnap offers.

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  Reply # 1347368 19-Jul-2015 21:07
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Yabanize: This really needed to go to court. Why did no one have the guts to at least attempt to fight them.

It's not fair on us


Who's going to pay the bill? Going to court could well up with legal bills well into the 7 figures and *if* the case was lost damages would be awarded which could be fairly significant.

Everybody wants cheap internet. You can't have cheap internet with virtually no margin for providers and expect them to front up with millions for a court case. Business these days is also about managing risk, and any risk management person looking at the situation would certainly have some very strong views on the issue.



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  Reply # 1347372 19-Jul-2015 21:09
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sbiddle:
Yabanize: This really needed to go to court. Why did no one have the guts to at least attempt to fight them.

It's not fair on us


Who's going to pay the bill? Going to court could well up with legal bills well into the 7 figures and *if* the case was lost damages would be awarded which could be fairly significant.

Everybody wants cheap internet. You can't have cheap internet with virtually no margin for providers and expect them to front up with millions for a court case. Business these days is also about managing risk, and any risk management person looking at the situation would certainly have some very strong views on the issue.



Would they have to spend much? There is no New Zealand law that says global mode is illegal. In fact the law says the opposite.

If it is illegal then NZ Post will have to stop doing YouShop

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1347374 19-Jul-2015 21:12
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Yabanize:
sbiddle:
Yabanize: This really needed to go to court. Why did no one have the guts to at least attempt to fight them.

It's not fair on us


Who's going to pay the bill? Going to court could well up with legal bills well into the 7 figures and *if* the case was lost damages would be awarded which could be fairly significant.

Everybody wants cheap internet. You can't have cheap internet with virtually no margin for providers and expect them to front up with millions for a court case. Business these days is also about managing risk, and any risk management person looking at the situation would certainly have some very strong views on the issue.



Would they have to spend much? There is no New Zealand law that says global mode is illegal. In fact the law says the opposite.

If it is illegal then NZ Post will have to stop doing YouShop

 

 

Realistically it does show an issue with modern copyright - the onus is no longer on the accuser to prove that the accused is in the wrong, but on the accused to defend themselves from the allegations of the accuser, or face penalties.

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  Reply # 1347381 19-Jul-2015 21:21
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Yabanize:

Would they have to spend much? There is no New Zealand law that says global mode is illegal. In fact the law says the opposite.

If it is illegal then NZ Post will have to stop doing YouShop


The law does not say global mode is legal.

I'm of the view it is, but if your belief is that the law explicitly says that it's legal you're misinformed. If anything the law and existing case law makes it very clear that it is not, hence the whole reason this was going to court in the first place. I've actually spent quite some time discussing this issue with somebody who's involved with it and it's safe to say it's by no means a straight forward case.

YouShop is very, very, very different to Global mode - and besides once TPP comes into play there could be some potential issues raised with that as well.




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  Reply # 1347383 19-Jul-2015 21:22
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sbiddle:
Yabanize:

Would they have to spend much? There is no New Zealand law that says global mode is illegal. In fact the law says the opposite.

If it is illegal then NZ Post will have to stop doing YouShop


The law does not say global mode is legal.

I'm of the view it is, but if your belief is that the law explicitly says that it's legal you're misinformed. If anything the law and existing case law makes it very clear that it is not, hence the whole reason this was going to court in the first place. I've actually spent quite some time discussing this issue with somebody who's involved with it and it's safe to say it's by no means a straight forward case.

YouShop is very, very, very different to Global mode - and besides once TPP comes into play there could be some potential issues raised with that as well.





Which piece of legislation says it is illegal?

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  Reply # 1347388 19-Jul-2015 21:33
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Yabanize:

Which piece of legislation says it is illegal?


There is nothing specific but section 16 will answer most of your questions.

Which piece of legislation says it's legal? And don't just answer the parallel importing bit, because that in itself is part of the problem when looked at in conjunction with section 16, particularly 16(1)(b)






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  Reply # 1347393 19-Jul-2015 21:54
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sbiddle:
Yabanize:

Which piece of legislation says it is illegal?


There is nothing specific but section 16 will answer most of your questions.

Which piece of legislation says it's legal? And don't just answer the parallel importing bit, because that in itself is part of the problem when looked at in conjunction with section 16, particularly 16(1)(b)




http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1994/0143/latest/DLM346899.html?search=sw_096be8ed81052016_doubt_25_se&p=1&sr=7

for the avoidance of doubt, does not include a process, treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that, in the normal course of operation, it only controls any access to a work for non-infringing purposes (for example, it does not include a process, treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that it controls geographic market segmentation by preventing the playback in New Zealand of a non-infringing copy of a work)


Also http://www.med.govt.nz/business/intellectual-property/copyright/copyright-new-technologies-amendment-act/faqs/technological-protection-measures/does-the-new-law-outlaw-multi-zone-dvd-players-which-can-bypass-region-encoding

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  Reply # 1347400 19-Jul-2015 22:16
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That section of the copyright act is one that works against Global Mode, not for it.

Trying to post sections of copyright act isn't going to do anything because you forget that I too believe it is legal. All I am saying it's that it's not a simple case. As I mentioned after spending time with somebody closely involved with this their arguments and existing case law doesn't necessarily back what some of may see when we read the law, and the risk of damages means risk management needs to be applied this case, and it would seem that that played a significant factor in the decision making process.

Multi-zone DVD players will also be illegal under TPP anyway.



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1347412 19-Jul-2015 23:42
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Yabanize:
Would they have to spend much? There is no New Zealand law that says global mode is illegal. In fact the law says the opposite.

If it is illegal then NZ Post will have to stop doing YouShop


Except for the fact we actively protect specific industries from parallel importing for commercial purposes.

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