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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2235985 13-May-2019 13:48
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OP you’re limited in what you can do on your end as pretty much every isp doesn’t really give a toss unless its over 100ms and going though the States. Latency is always a secondary concern.

If you’re wanting your 32ms back then it looks like Spark is your best choice.

Also as I mentioned before about dota2 interpolation, if you haven’t already then give these settings a go

cl_interp 0
cl_interp_ratio 1
cl_updaterate 60

(cl_interp_ratio / cl_updaterate) = 0.0166s

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  # 2235992 13-May-2019 13:56
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edc:

 

BarTender:

 

Lias:

 

Do any of you guys saying 10ms additional latency is irrelevant actually play twitch based shooters at a competitive level? Because it absolutely can matter.

 

 

Being a late player to this thread I think what is being consistently said. If you want a decent ping and routing then stick with a decent ISP. 

 

And that outside of your internal network (using properly terminated wired connection, decent router capable of shifting the traffic as did anyone else notice pfsense in the dns name of the first hop?) there isn't much you can do.

 

If it were me, I would swap to an ISP supplied router rather than using pfsense just to test that, plus make sure there wasn't any other traffic possibly saturating the connection or router.

 

Then if it was still bad I would ask others in my local region who are with other ISPs and see. As the ping in Auckland vs Wellington vs Christchurch to Sydney or further away is +10 (WLG) or +25 (CHC) ms or so.

 

 

I've tried two pfsense boxes, pings tested when the link was idle, Sunday night around 11 pm. The pings are constant 42ms no matter the time of day though, I've tested in evenings every day of the week. I have two R7000s to test on the link, but I really don't think it can make a difference because the delay is between hops outside of my network. I use CAT6a 550 MHz cables, I think the cable is 3m in length. The router I have now has an Intel i350 T4V2 (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/84805/intel-ethernet-server-adapter-i350-t4v2.html). I can see with the traceroutes that Auckland to Sydney should be about 23 ms. The pfsense setup is essentially out of the box, I only activated the 2 additional NICs. 

 

 

As others have said I would try either with the ISP supplied hardware (ie a HG659, Fritzbox or similar dedicated hardware router rather with NAT offload than a Linux box running pfsense). Plus if you have IPv6 enabled try turning that off. Too many times I have had people say "why am I not getting the speed I have with my x router" and then swap it out for a HG659 on an isolated connection and the problem goes away. Not saying there aren't major issues with the HG659 especially when you have more than 32 devices, but being capable of shifting traffic at 1gbit is not one of those issues.

 

Then also try isolating your computer as it could be a recent patch / update / configuration on the computer itself that is inserting latency.






 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2235995 13-May-2019 13:59
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edc:

 

darylblake:

 

Minimum ping Auckland -> SYD is about 24ms.

 

In gaming you will not notice anything between 50ms and 25ms.... So don't fret it. 

 

Even if you were a pro gamer, playing an FPS game you would need about 100ms+ to notice a lag. 

 

Its more than likely any lag you encounter will be to either your PC catching up on processing (running background tasks which are causing a lag). Or frames being back-generated / catching up. Or you are using wireless (which is a terrible idea for games).

 

Don't complain about a 10 ms difference on fibre. Thats just ridiculous.

 

 

As I've stated many times, I do notice the difference post change. The ping is measured consistently from the router, in client (in game). It isn't wireless (I'm cabled), it isn't Windows, it isn't my hardware. Nothing has changed apart from the ISP's performance.

 

There are many aspects of lag, the link being one of them, and the additional 10ms over and above what already exists, is bothersome. 

 

 

10ms doesn't sound like a performance problem with an ISP. The ISP only controls the network to the edge of the next network. The way traffic is routed and passed between networks to get to its destination depends how the routes are advertised. If you don't notice the difference post change then I don't really understand what the problem is.

I have had this problem before, if you get a massive frame rate drop, or lag spikes 90% of the time its anti-virus or something running. It would be worthwhile looking at the task manager when it happens or a top list. 






'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 2235997 13-May-2019 14:03
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noroad:

 

TheoM:

 

I've ISP hopped many times between Spark, Voda, 2degrees, Voyager, MR, and a few other smaller ISPs. The routes are largely the same everywhere. ISP hopping isn't going to do much for your latency. It could be one of many things, or multiples of them that are causing you issues.

 

 

 

 

This being said, TGA and Hawaiki were not options to Australia until relatively recently, so things are quite possibly different. Some ISP's will now be using a longer/cheaper path that was not an option until fairly recently. The same applies to USA transit, not all path's are created equal as such.

 

 

shhh dont be saying myrepublic use the cheapest routing possible! people might actually catch on!





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


Mr Snotty
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  # 2236013 13-May-2019 14:21
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@edc The people on this thread who have mentioned to try a Huawei HG659 are not kidding... They're all professionals in the industry and know what they're talking about. PF-Sense is actually not the best choice, in your case you should be using a router with full hardware packet offloading like the Huawei HG659 or even an Edgerouter Lite if you want something a little more advanced.

 

Do yourself a favour and just try what they say. If it doesn't work then no sweat. But you came here asking for help, there are a bunch of professionals in this industry attempting to give you help and you keep saying "it is not the equipment". Instead of saying that, attempt to prove them wrong.

 

Also. Sorry, but it is actually impossible to notice 10ms. This has been proven time and time again.





'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 2236017 13-May-2019 14:26
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michaelmurfy:

 

edc The people on this thread who have mentioned to try a Huawei HG659 are not kidding... They're all professionals in the industry and know what they're talking about. PF-Sense is actually not the best choice, in your case you should be using a router with full hardware packet offloading like the Huawei HG659 or even an Edgerouter Lite if you want something a little more advanced.

 

 

as someone in the middle of migrating from pfsense core on my network to an array of mikrotiks... can definitely support this.

 

 

 

PFsense is amazing, don't get me wrong. It's very flexible and simple to use.

 

But i do experience 5ms difference in my two builds, when the pfsense machine is under Heavy load. 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


edc



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Geek


  # 2236022 13-May-2019 14:48
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The ISP doesn't supply a router on my package. I will try my own Netgear R7000.

 

The pfsense can offload to the Intel i350 but it isn't recommended.

 

The pfsense isn't virtualised, it has nothing to do with Linux.

 

ipv6 is disabled.

 

It has nothing to do with my gaming machine, because the pings directly from the router match that of the gaming machine. I'll check if that Windows patch (kb4482887) applied to my gaming machine and will set the Dota2 config settings too. (cl_interp 0 , cl_interp_ratio 1 , cl_updaterate 60)

 

My pfsense has about 1% utilisation of RAM and CPU. I don't run VPNs or any services apart from the out of the box services. I log data to the ramdisk and save it to disk every 6 hours. In the BIOS every device not used by pfsense is disabled (USB, Serial Ports, Parallel Ports, Audio Controller, onboard NIC). CPU Frequency set to max. 

 

 

 

10 ms by itself can't be noticed, but 10 ms on top of everything else is noticeable and jarring at the aggregate level. The 10 ms delay has pushed something over the edge to noticeable levels.


'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 2236043 13-May-2019 15:14
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Hardware aside, I'll go back to my pervious point.

 

 

 

If your wanting to have latency at the minimum, you need to look at a dedicated link with an agreement to use exactly the lowest latency route.

 

otherwise, look through the thread, there are many providers that have the latency you're looking for to google.

 

 

 

 

Spark

 

1 * * *
2 * * mdr-ip24-int.msc.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.116.6) 8.479 ms
3 ae8-10.akbr6.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.116.5) 8.218 ms 9.279 ms 9.046 ms
4 ae7-2.akbr7.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.119.53) 8.244 ms 8.361 ms 8.124 ms
5 xe5-0-7.sgbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.232.38) 32.943 ms
   122.56.119.18 (122.56.119.18) 32.199 ms
   xe5-0-0.sgbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.232.242) 31.226 ms
6 ae2-10.sgbr4.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.232.246) 33.459 ms 33.259 ms 33.828 ms
7 google-gsw.sgbr4.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.237.198) 33.208 ms 32.895 ms 34.948 ms
8 108.170.247.33 (108.170.247.33) 32.916 ms 33.215 ms 34.316 ms
9 209.85.255.165 (209.85.255.165) 32.886 ms
   209.85.255.175 (209.85.255.175) 33.504 ms
   209.85.255.165 (209.85.255.165) 32.371 ms
10 syd09s15-in-f14.1e100.net (216.58.203.110) 31.838 ms 33.384 ms 32.068 ms

 

 

 

 

 

Vodafone

 

1 254.183.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz (27.252.183.254) 8.560 ms 7.958 ms 8.390 ms
2 10.123.38.198 (10.123.38.198) 9.056 ms 9.087 ms 9.455 ms
3 atm-2-0-0-402-tig-nz-akl-1.ihug.net (203.109.130.1) 30.954 ms 31.781 ms 31.764 ms
4 ggl-router.syd.vf.net.nz.130.109.203.in-addr.arpa (203.109.130.2) 31.698 ms 31.594 ms 31.521 ms
5 108.170.247.33 (108.170.247.33) 34.486 ms
   108.170.247.65 (108.170.247.65) 33.713 ms
   108.170.247.33 (108.170.247.33) 34.530 ms
6 209.85.255.175 (209.85.255.175) 33.439 ms 33.188 ms 32.941 ms
7 syd09s15-in-f14.1e100.net (216.58.203.110) 31.427 ms 31.772 ms 31.539 ms

 

 

Excuse the minor jitter, my links are not inactive.

 

 

 

2D is also a great option, Nick will enjoy explaining the reasoning you can't always have perfect latency i'm sure ;)





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  # 2236134 13-May-2019 16:51
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Just because the pfsense router isn't under load doesn't mean it's not introducing latency and packet delay into your flow. Please do try with the R7000 and make sure that you are running the netgear official firmware not OpenWRT/Tomato or any other custom firmware so that Hardware Acceleration is turned on.

 

And this is what I get on Spark, 2D and Vodafone from here in Wellington.

 

Spark:

 

traceroute -d 216.58.203.110
traceroute to 216.58.203.110 (216.58.203.110), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 * * *
2 219.88.191.33 (219.88.191.33) 0.795 ms 0.810 ms 0.795 ms
3 * * *
4 ae8-10.akbr6.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.116.5) 18.311 ms 18.294 ms 18.266 ms
5 ae7-2.akbr7.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.119.53) 10.015 ms 10.006 ms 9.982 ms
6 xe7-0-6.sgbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.127.6) 34.432 ms xe5-0-5.sgbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.127.190) 34.202 ms 122.56.119.18 (122.56.119.18) 33.514 ms
7 ae2-10.sgbr4.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.232.246) 33.432 ms 34.041 ms 34.171 ms
8 google-gsw.sgbr4.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.237.198) 35.631 ms 35.609 ms 35.581 ms
9 108.170.247.65 (108.170.247.65) 34.542 ms 34.519 ms 108.170.247.33 (108.170.247.33) 34.929 ms
10 209.85.255.165 (209.85.255.165) 34.878 ms 209.85.255.175 (209.85.255.175) 34.821 ms 209.85.255.165 (209.85.255.165) 34.450 ms
11 syd09s15-in-f14.1e100.net (216.58.203.110) 35.015 ms 34.969 ms 34.915 ms

 

2D:

 

traceroute -d google.com
traceroute to google.com (172.217.167.78), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 * * *
2 69.7.69.111.static.snap.net.nz (111.69.7.69) 7.117 ms 7.110 ms 7.090 ms
3 72.14.215.151 (72.14.215.151) 38.594 ms 38.538 ms 38.481 ms
4 72.14.215.150 (72.14.215.150) 38.387 ms 38.442 ms 38.430 ms
5 108.170.247.49 (108.170.247.49) 40.072 ms 108.170.247.81 (108.170.247.81) 38.371 ms 38.350 ms
6 209.85.247.133 (209.85.247.133) 41.343 ms 40.690 ms 209.85.247.127 (209.85.247.127) 40.625 ms
7 syd15s06-in-f14.1e100.net (172.217.167.78) 37.500 ms 38.837 ms 38.824 ms

 

Vodafone:

 

traceroute -d google.com
traceroute to google.com (216.58.200.110), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 * * *
2 mail.botica.co.nz (203.118.156.254) 1.355 ms 1.517 ms 1.573 ms
3 10.200.12.21 (10.200.12.21) 1.549 ms 1.536 ms 10.200.12.17 (10.200.12.17) 1.538 ms
4 atm-2-0-0-402-tig-nz-akl-1.ihug.net (203.109.130.1) 32.827 ms 32.806 ms 32.749 ms
5 ggl-router.syd.vf.net.nz.130.109.203.in-addr.arpa (203.109.130.2) 32.983 ms 32.976 ms 32.757 ms
6 108.170.247.33 (108.170.247.33) 34.917 ms 108.170.247.65 (108.170.247.65) 33.308 ms 33.269 ms
7 209.85.254.119 (209.85.254.119) 32.870 ms 32.966 ms 209.85.250.139 (209.85.250.139) 34.711 ms
8 syd09s14-in-f14.1e100.net (216.58.200.110) 32.795 ms 34.227 ms 32.445 ms

 

I think it's somewhere between MyR, pfsense and your computer.






117 posts

Master Geek
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  # 2236139 13-May-2019 17:01
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Postcode, ms, ISP, Package, Infrastructure

 

 

 

1024, 25ms, Vodafone, 100-20, Fibre

 

Tracing route to google.com [172.217.25.46]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms router.asus.com [10.1.1.1]
2 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 118-92-131-254.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz [118.92.131.254]
3 4 ms 2 ms 2 ms 10.123.38.198
4 28 ms 27 ms 26 ms atm-2-0-0-402-tig-nz-akl-1.ihug.net [203.109.130.1]
5 30 ms 25 ms 26 ms ggl-router.syd.vf.net.nz.130.109.203.in-addr.arpa [203.109.130.2]
6 31 ms 31 ms 30 ms 108.170.247.81
7 28 ms 29 ms 29 ms 108.170.233.195
8 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms syd15s02-in-f14.1e100.net [172.217.25.46]

 

Trace complete.


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