Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#1801096 14-Jun-2017 19:59

Dingbatt: I fear that the Lions have experienced what happens when you try and play open running 'Southern Hemisphere' rugby and will now revert to a dour grinding forward based game where the aim is to get to the right place in the field, gain a scrum penalty and convert it to points. After all that is how England won their one and only Rugby World Cup.
Lesson from the last week, plan A forward grind (Crusaders), plan B running rugby (Highlanders).

Last week a certain captain whined about the refs, and giving THEM a chance. Many articles on how arrogant we are, proven. This week, more issues with the refs, from BIL. And from what I read, reasonable. So whats up? If refs are that bad, replace then with 5 TV refs. I watch many sports, I don't see this elsewhere.

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#1801102 14-Jun-2017 20:07

The trouble is rugby rules are very open to interpretation and every ref interprets differently so effectively there's always one team that feels hard done by.

It's not like golf - the ball is in or out of the cup.

Tennis - the ball is on the line or not on the line.

Rugby - ruck - ok don't even go there! Offside ... umm ... yeah ok. Who the %$#^ knows where that imaginary line is and who's toenail is in front of that line or not!

Mind you soccer is also like that. Hmm make that most contact sport eh ...

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#1801106 14-Jun-2017 20:14

joker97:

The trouble is rugby rules are very open to interpretation and every ref interprets differently so effectively there's always one team that feels hard done by.

It's not like golf - the ball is in or out of the cup.

Tennis - the ball is on the line or not on the line.

Rugby - ruck - ok don't even go there! Offside ... umm ... yeah ok. Who the %$#^ knows where that imaginary line is and who's toenail is in front of that line or not!

Mind you soccer is also like that. Hmm make that most contact sport eh ...

I dont watch soccer! Awed by the skill, I decided to watch a game. Never again. Lets spend 3 hours moving the ball up, then another 3 moving it back to the halfway line. Slight exaggeration, -:)

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#1801107 14-Jun-2017 20:16

On a serious note, I get there is a difference between the northern and southern hemisphere games. But rugby is not new, its a mature game, sort it. Or, get the teams to adapt to a ref that is a world apart, literally from the other ref.

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#1801109 14-Jun-2017 20:18

joker97:

The trouble is rugby rules are very open to interpretation and every ref interprets differently so effectively there's always one team that feels hard done by.

It's not like golf - the ball is in or out of the cup.

Tennis - the ball is on the line or not on the line.

Rugby - ruck - ok don't even go there! Offside ... umm ... yeah ok. Who the %$#^ knows where that imaginary line is and who's toenail is in front of that line or not!

Mind you soccer is also like that. Hmm make that most contact sport eh ...

It is open to interpretation.

And even in Tennis, where the ball is either in or out, there were issues all the time until hawk-eye... and how many line lines people do they have? And now they have the review system, and it features in every single game I watch (admittedly not many).

Soccer has nothing like the contentious rules or contention for the ball like Rugby. I can only think of a few rules you need to know - no hands, the touch line and offside. Offsides get referred upstairs all the time in soccer IIRC. The same for cricket, always a bunch of contentious LBW and caught behind calls, fewer now with technology.

In rugby, every breakdown there is so much to check at the same time. Perhaps technology could work for some (e.g. offside at breakdown being monitored using some laser-type technology) but it's just inherently more complicated and subjective.

So it's common in pretty much all sport, more so in rugby due to the complicated ruleset.

tdgeek

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#1801112 14-Jun-2017 20:25

blair003:

joker97:

The trouble is rugby rules are very open to interpretation and every ref interprets differently so effectively there's always one team that feels hard done by.

It's not like golf - the ball is in or out of the cup.

Tennis - the ball is on the line or not on the line.

Rugby - ruck - ok don't even go there! Offside ... umm ... yeah ok. Who the %$#^ knows where that imaginary line is and who's toenail is in front of that line or not!

Mind you soccer is also like that. Hmm make that most contact sport eh ...

It is open to interpretation.

And even in Tennis, where the ball is either in or out, there were issues all the time until hawk-eye... and how many line lines people do they have? And now they have the review system, and it features in every single game I watch (admittedly not many).

Soccer has nothing like the contentious rules or contention for the ball like Rugby. I can only think of a few rules you need to know - no hands, the touch line and offside. Offsides get referred upstairs all the time in soccer IIRC. The same for cricket, always a bunch of contentious LBW and caught behind calls, fewer now with technology.

In rugby, every breakdown there is so much to check at the same time. Perhaps technology could work for some (e.g. offside at breakdown being monitored using some laser-type technology) but it's just inherently more complicated and subjective.

So it's common in pretty much all sport, more so in rugby due to the complicated ruleset.

No its not. Tennis, its the eye, that happens. Its not the interpretation. There is the same rule for any match. Rugby, well, the experts can answer, but I hear the expert commentators, in the match, and post match. The refs need to run a consistent rule, or both sides need to adapt to the inconsistent rule, and both stop whining.

blair003

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#1801113 14-Jun-2017 20:28

tdgeek:

blair003:

joker97:

The trouble is rugby rules are very open to interpretation and every ref interprets differently so effectively there's always one team that feels hard done by.

It's not like golf - the ball is in or out of the cup.

Tennis - the ball is on the line or not on the line.

Rugby - ruck - ok don't even go there! Offside ... umm ... yeah ok. Who the %$#^ knows where that imaginary line is and who's toenail is in front of that line or not!

Mind you soccer is also like that. Hmm make that most contact sport eh ...

It is open to interpretation.

And even in Tennis, where the ball is either in or out, there were issues all the time until hawk-eye... and how many line lines people do they have? And now they have the review system, and it features in every single game I watch (admittedly not many).

Soccer has nothing like the contentious rules or contention for the ball like Rugby. I can only think of a few rules you need to know - no hands, the touch line and offside. Offsides get referred upstairs all the time in soccer IIRC. The same for cricket, always a bunch of contentious LBW and caught behind calls, fewer now with technology.

In rugby, every breakdown there is so much to check at the same time. Perhaps technology could work for some (e.g. offside at breakdown being monitored using some laser-type technology) but it's just inherently more complicated and subjective.

So it's common in pretty much all sport, more so in rugby due to the complicated ruleset.

No its not. Tennis, its the eye, that happens. Its not the interpretation. There is the same rule for any match. Rugby, well, the experts can answer, but I hear the expert commentators, in the match, and post match. The refs need to run a consistent rule, or both sides need to adapt to the inconsistent rule, and both stop whining.

Yeah fair enough. In rugby it is both, complicated rules/different interpretations and the ref just not being able to check everything at once as is required.

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#1801114 14-Jun-2017 20:32

blair003:

tdgeek:

blair003:

joker97:

The trouble is rugby rules are very open to interpretation and every ref interprets differently so effectively there's always one team that feels hard done by.

It's not like golf - the ball is in or out of the cup.

Tennis - the ball is on the line or not on the line.

Rugby - ruck - ok don't even go there! Offside ... umm ... yeah ok. Who the %$#^ knows where that imaginary line is and who's toenail is in front of that line or not!

Mind you soccer is also like that. Hmm make that most contact sport eh ...

It is open to interpretation.

And even in Tennis, where the ball is either in or out, there were issues all the time until hawk-eye... and how many line lines people do they have? And now they have the review system, and it features in every single game I watch (admittedly not many).

Soccer has nothing like the contentious rules or contention for the ball like Rugby. I can only think of a few rules you need to know - no hands, the touch line and offside. Offsides get referred upstairs all the time in soccer IIRC. The same for cricket, always a bunch of contentious LBW and caught behind calls, fewer now with technology.

In rugby, every breakdown there is so much to check at the same time. Perhaps technology could work for some (e.g. offside at breakdown being monitored using some laser-type technology) but it's just inherently more complicated and subjective.

So it's common in pretty much all sport, more so in rugby due to the complicated ruleset.

No its not. Tennis, its the eye, that happens. Its not the interpretation. There is the same rule for any match. Rugby, well, the experts can answer, but I hear the expert commentators, in the match, and post match. The refs need to run a consistent rule, or both sides need to adapt to the inconsistent rule, and both stop whining.

Yeah fair enough. In rugby it is both, complicated rules/different interpretations and the ref just not being able to check everything at once as is required.

I do get that. Eyes not in the back of the head, and they do a great job. I guess what winds me up, is that AB's and BIL while about the ref, as in north and south interpretation. That gap needs to be closed. Its rugby, a global sport, it needs to have a global ruling.

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#1801144 14-Jun-2017 21:22

blair003:

joker97:

The trouble is rugby rules are very open to interpretation and every ref interprets differently so effectively there's always one team that feels hard done by.

It's not like golf - the ball is in or out of the cup.

Tennis - the ball is on the line or not on the line.

Rugby - ruck - ok don't even go there! Offside ... umm ... yeah ok. Who the %$#^ knows where that imaginary line is and who's toenail is in front of that line or not!

Mind you soccer is also like that. Hmm make that most contact sport eh ...

It is open to interpretation.

And even in Tennis, where the ball is either in or out, there were issues all the time until hawk-eye... and how many line lines people do they have? And now they have the review system, and it features in every single game I watch (admittedly not many).

Soccer has nothing like the contentious rules or contention for the ball like Rugby. I can only think of a few rules you need to know - no hands, the touch line and offside. Offsides get referred upstairs all the time in soccer IIRC. The same for cricket, always a bunch of contentious LBW and caught behind calls, fewer now with technology.

In rugby, every breakdown there is so much to check at the same time. Perhaps technology could work for some (e.g. offside at breakdown being monitored using some laser-type technology) but it's just inherently more complicated and subjective.

So it's common in pretty much all sport, more so in rugby due to the complicated ruleset.

I don't watch any sports nowadays because I just don't have 3 hrs to spare. Soccer has no referral, zero. the only tech they use is whether the ball crosses the goal line = goal.

Rugby - don't get me started. Remember Scotland Vs Australia RWC 2015! What a waste of the Scots' time.

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#1801357 15-Jun-2017 11:14

blair003:

Dingbatt: I fear that the Lions have experienced what happens when you try and play open running 'Southern Hemisphere' rugby and will now revert to a dour grinding forward based game where the aim is to get to the right place in the field, gain a scrum penalty and convert it to points. After all that is how England won their one and only Rugby World Cup.
Lesson from the last week, plan A forward grind (Crusaders), plan B running rugby (Highlanders).

I don't think anyone seriously thought the Lions were going to try and play open running rugby.

I do feel that the two last games were clashes of styles. The Crusaders effectively got out-Crusadered by a team better equipped to play that game. I didn't watch very closely but the Crusaders are usually less all out attack and take fewer risks than the Highlanders, Chiefs or Hurricanes, preferring to get forward dominance first. The Highlanders attacked everything last night and came away with a win. I think a few penalties going the Highlanders way (rightfully) was critical. Despite playing a better Lions team, the Crusaders could have also won as they can score points, but they didn't get a few calls go their way, particularly around offside and scrum.

I think it will be who can impose their style on the game. The Lions will try and slow it down and keep it tight. NZ will try and speed it up and play at pace.

That's not to say the Lions won't run it if the opportunity arises, but it won't be their core game plan.

If anything I think the preparation the Lions are getting is top notch. They will know the intensity level they need to bring and I'm sure they will step up again for the tests. We will have to hit the ground running to get a result.

Nobody will be talking about these games vs super teams if we lose test matches.

Not quite right about the styles. Highlanders have had more kicks in play then any other Super teams and the Crusaders more passes then any other team. The big difference apart from the ref was the playing surface, one was slippery with heavy dew and the other was dry with a roof.

blair003

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#1802449 16-Jun-2017 21:44

Well, that is not ideal preparation to play the Lions.

tdgeek

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#1802451 16-Jun-2017 21:49

blair003:

Well, that is not ideal preparation to play the Lions.

No. The first 20 minutes was. The rest was attacking a side that has no defence. Handling skill was great, but there was no defence to test them even then.

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#1802494 17-Jun-2017 09:48

Even in last night's game the ref appeared to be out of his depth.
A knock-on before the first try that was missed, and a forward pass that wasn't forward (by the laws of the game - backwards out of the hands) to deny the last, just bookended a pretty average reffing display.
Neck rolls that weren't punished, high tackles where the player being tackled ducked under or fell into the tackler that were punished, primary tacklers being penalised for entering the side of the ruck. All signs of an entire officiating team that were having a subpar night.
Still a nice way for the ABs to blow away some cobwebs and get a few combinations going. I'm sure no one is under any illusions that the challenge next Saturday night will be much sterner.
Bring on the MABs tonight. Hope it's not too wet so we can see the flair I'm sure both teams are capable of.

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#1802513 17-Jun-2017 10:36

Agreed, but I wasnt expecting a lot given it was the same ref as against the Crusaders. That knock-on try should have seen Samoa scrum half go to the bin as he was well offside when he forced the Savea knock-on, so they are probably lucky it didnt go back. Agreed re. the last try, robbed, in fairness to the ref though that call came from the Aussie assistant

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#1802810 17-Jun-2017 21:43

Maori comprehensively outplayed by the Lions. To me the forwards were the difference. That meaning tthe Lions leading all the stats 4 to 1. Except tackles, which the MABs did four times as many of. The Maoris also got penalised four times as much.

As a Chiefs supporter my question is now are Hames, Messam, Elliot, Kerr-Barlow, Ngatai, Lowe, McKenzie and Nanai-Williams available to play on Tuesday?

The ABs will still win next weekend.

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