Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2091673 16-Sep-2018 20:13

One of the things I observed was the AB's were playing at a frenetic pace early in the game. They didn't bother to adjust when this didn't work. I feel they thought it was a foregone conclusion that they would be able to blow the doors off the game as a matter of fact, and the Boks did a great job of coping with this. Skills execution was pretty average compared to prior games and at that pace, 1-2% of skills execution timing failure is disastrous.

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tdgeek

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#2091674 16-Sep-2018 20:16

networkn:

I disagree. Teams can have an off night and other teams can have a blinder. This in my opinion, was what happened last night. As good as SA were, they were 2 points from a loss. The margins were much smaller than most people would have given them (SA) credit for. Most were expecting SA to lose by 20, they would have only lost by 2-3 maybe if just one of a dozen things had gone the way of the AB's. Doesn't change the result, SA can be very proud of that acheivement. I wouldn't back them to overtake the AB's any time soon. If they can be competitive, that's an achievement.

If we had won, I would have felt the Boks were hard done by, and lamented the tiny margin that the AB's won by.

Teams can focus and practice in areas that have in a prior game(s) been a weakness. Scrums and Lineouts (set peice) and fix the issues. Lineouts is usually either throwing, or timing, it's not that difficult to fix, but it requires attention to be paid to it. A week can make a world of difference in ONE area. You can't fix fitness in a week, hence the Wallabies got 2 hidings from the AB's consecutive weeks. However, their scrum AND lineout were significantly better than the week before.

@handle9 what was our average points conceded in the 2 Years prior to Wayne Smith departing, what's the average now? I can't recall which year it was, but recently I recall there were articles around who were the most miserly in defense, and the AB's were head and shoulders better than anyone else.

I sort of agree. But the AB's, to lose by an off night isn't professional at all. Thats no excuse. They failed to execute, and whether that's their off night bad luck or what the other team put in from of them is debatable. You can only play as well as you can play (which is no issue for us) and how the other side allows you to play. The latter is where we were lost. If you are playing rubbish sides all of the time, its easy to get lost when someone takes it to you. We should have been better at that, and IMO is where the so called errors of execution came from, no game plan as the other side nullified it so not sure what to do, so tried too hard.

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#2091676 16-Sep-2018 20:23

networkn:

One of the things I observed was the AB's were playing at a frenetic pace early in the game. They didn't bother to adjust when this didn't work. I feel they thought it was a foregone conclusion that they would be able to blow the doors off the game as a matter of fact, and the Boks did a great job of coping with this. Skills execution was pretty average compared to prior games and at that pace, 1-2% of skills execution timing failure is disastrous.

At any elite sport that 2% is disastrous. Thats the elite Federer type compared to the really good type.

AB's are a target, everyone knows their game, its predictable.

Ronan O'Gara had an interesting piece this week, talking about how the NZ attitude to rugger is so different to elsewhere.

Its a chess game, and IMHO, we are too used to our style, and when everyone else targets that, thats a problem. Having said that, they have had plenty of opportunity to, but RSA is not a great side now, not at all, KR said that also this week. My issue is I dont know how good the AB's are. Results in the last 2 years are meaningless when the rest of the tier is poor. Thats why I also said I don't know how goof Argentina or Ireland are. There are probably no different than usual, except the rest of the tier has come back to them.

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#2091677 16-Sep-2018 20:26

This time ref didn't make dodgy calls against the Boks. Maybe that was the difference. Lol. I find that the ABs get a lot of favours from the ref but not last night.

Ok I'ma gonna hide in my hole for now ...

Handle9

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#2091681 16-Sep-2018 20:39

This year we are conceding ~21 per game in the Rugby Championship

2017 ~20 per game (TRC)

2016 ~14 per game (TRC)

2015 ~21 per game (TRC)

Nothing much unusual so far this year. Including losing a game - it's one game when the opposition did play well and we weren't at our best. Saying we weren't professional because we didn't have a great game is ludicrous. Does everyone have a perfect day at work every day? Also saying everyone else sucks for the last 2 years so we can't judge the games is crazy.

We are in year 3 of the 4 year cycle. Teams are starting to gel together but still making lots of changes and finding their top sides but it's starting to become apparent where the best sides are at.

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#2091683 16-Sep-2018 20:43

Having watched the replay, I am now convinced the two intercept tries were both due to impulsive decisions. Jordie Barrett's one is obvious, but Leinert-Brown's one was caused by Aaron Smith's decision to take a tap penalty and when blocked, fling the ball to the left to players who weren't prepared or positioned. The SA halfback that rushed Smith had not retreated the required 10m and I have my doubts that the player who achieved the intercept retreated at all, and therefore was offside. Something the assistant referee should have been on to. Be that as it may, rather than taking a tap on your own side of halfway if the penalty had been put into touch down inside the Bok 22, it would have been a completely story. It was arrogance on Smith's part. Which is fine when you are in the 22 and in the lead. But not on halfway when you are behind. The same goes for Barrett's cross field kicks.

Both Barrett (B) and McKenzie took up positions 'in the pocket' (to take a drop kick) at times during the final moments of the match, the commentators even mentioned it, but repositioned as different moves were called.

The biggest part of the debrief will be snap decisions not to make again.

I'd love to see a different camera angle of the final play of the match. When I asked a friend who was at the match, he just texted back "offside".

. Trying not to blame the officials, because the green rubs both ways. Karma probably evens out the decisions in the long term.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Hammerer

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#2091721 17-Sep-2018 00:09

In recent games before this one, Leinert-Brown and several others have pushed passes when they should have held on to prevent an intercept. Maybe they are so focused on the player they are passing too that they don't see the intercept.

tdgeek

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#2091735 17-Sep-2018 07:19

Handle9:

Saying we weren't professional because we didn't have a great game is ludicrous.

I don't think so. Having not a great game against a very very average RSA side is a 10 point win. They conceded 36 points, and the best side was fielded. We are dominating more then probably ever before in the modern game as we are excellent, the others have dropped, which makes this game more than a not a great game.

Missed passe, missed kicks happens an any game, its just a stat, but to allow 36 points, shows that either they played poorly in as far as managing the game, or the coaching/game plan was poor, or they got taken on and were not up to it/did not adapt.

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#2091737 17-Sep-2018 07:23

Dingbatt: Having watched the replay, I am now convinced the two intercept tries were both due to impulsive decisions. Jordie Barrett's one is obvious, but Leinert-Brown's one was caused by Aaron Smith's decision to take a tap penalty and when blocked, fling the ball to the left to players who weren't prepared or positioned. The SA halfback that rushed Smith had not retreated the required 10m and I have my doubts that the player who achieved the intercept retreated at all, and therefore was offside. Something the assistant referee should have been on to. Be that as it may, rather than taking a tap on your own side of halfway if the penalty had been put into touch down inside the Bok 22, it would have been a completely story. It was arrogance on Smith's part. Which is fine when you are in the 22 and in the lead. But not on halfway when you are behind. The same goes for Barrett's cross field kicks.

Both Barrett (B) and McKenzie took up positions 'in the pocket' (to take a drop kick) at times during the final moments of the match, the commentators even mentioned it, but repositioned as different moves were called.

The biggest part of the debrief will be snap decisions not to make again.

I'd love to see a different camera angle of the final play of the match. When I asked a friend who was at the match, he just texted back "offside".

. Trying not to blame the officials, because the green rubs both ways. Karma probably evens out the decisions in the long term.

This is what gets me. We lose, blame ourselves. RSA won the game, not 9-8, they scored 36 points. The strategy they used, worked. Errors happen, that's normal, IMHO the errors that we are using to blame for a loss were caused by the opponent taking it to us

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#2091743 17-Sep-2018 07:48

networkn:

One of the things I observed was the AB's were playing at a frenetic pace early in the game. They didn't bother to adjust when this didn't work. I feel they thought it was a foregone conclusion that they would be able to blow the doors off the game as a matter of fact, and the Boks did a great job of coping with this. Skills execution was pretty average compared to prior games and at that pace, 1-2% of skills execution timing failure is disastrous.

Maybe it's because they were playing some 2nd string players and some 1st string players out of position.

It happens in rugby when you do that.

I think for the RWC you really need specialists who play one position if you can help it.

In terms of captaincy, yes I have not seen K Read as the astute game changing strategist. I think he just leads by example ie with brute force ...

But then what do I know about the rugby ... I don't recognise half the team of anyone anywhere nowadays ...

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#2091746 17-Sep-2018 08:14

Dingbatt: Having watched the replay, I am now convinced the two intercept tries were both due to impulsive decisions. Jordie Barrett's one is obvious, but Leinert-Brown's one was caused by Aaron Smith's decision to take a tap penalty and when blocked, fling the ball to the left to players who weren't prepared or positioned. The SA halfback that rushed Smith had not retreated the required 10m and I have my doubts that the player who achieved the intercept retreated at all, and therefore was offside. Something the assistant referee should have been on to. Be that as it may, rather than taking a tap on your own side of halfway if the penalty had been put into touch down inside the Bok 22, it would have been a completely story. It was arrogance on Smith's part. Which is fine when you are in the 22 and in the lead. But not on halfway when you are behind. The same goes for Barrett's cross field kicks.

Both Barrett (B) and McKenzie took up positions 'in the pocket' (to take a drop kick) at times during the final moments of the match, the commentators even mentioned it, but repositioned as different moves were called.

The biggest part of the debrief will be snap decisions not to make again.

I'd love to see a different camera angle of the final play of the match. When I asked a friend who was at the match, he just texted back "offside".

. Trying not to blame the officials, because the green rubs both ways. Karma probably evens out the decisions in the long term.

it is confirmed that the assistant ref made communication with the ref saying "8 and 9 offside", so yes apparently you are right.

but there were so many mistakes that made the ABs look like school boys that out of the multitude, if the ABs didn't make just a single one of those mistakes the scores would have been different and I won't have so much fun typing on this thread.

but alas, it is good to know that there is still everything for everyone to play for in the RC! ??even australia?!

but credit to SA, they won, and they deserved the win.

it's hard to explain to people that I am not criticizing the ABs and I am not failing to credit SA, I am actually just calling it as I see it.

and following this, either the ABs will keep losing or they won't. historically they have one loss and then the just go berserk and win everything after that for another year or two.

but we will find out!

tdgeek

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#2091751 17-Sep-2018 08:27

Batman:

and following this, either the ABs will keep losing or they won't. historically they have one loss and then the just go berserk and win everything after that for another year or two.

but we will find out!

They are the best side, so will keep on winning. Its up to the other sides to play a game that will ruffle the AB style, or be innovative, rather than just let the AB's control the game

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#2091764 17-Sep-2018 09:12

Well played South Africa. Their game plan worked.

I think the plan was to disrup as much as possible at the back of the ruck - they really slowed down distribution from the ruck to the halfback.

Most of it was illegal, and the penalty count shows it. They should have been pinged a lot more, and who knows if a different, more officious, ref would have had his hand in his pocket earlier than NO did.

Not claiming that was the reason the ABs lost - it was a good game, and stupid mistakes cost us (Jordies brain explosion, lots of dropped ball). We did not adapt well enough, and could have easily won the game.

The last intercept pass (led to a try) annoyed me the most - I was halfway through saying that they'd better be careful not to give away an intercept when it happened.

I also don't know why they didn't go for the three points when they had the chances with about 10 minutes to go.

GG Boks - see you in three weeks.

Jas777

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#2091813 17-Sep-2018 11:16

That was the 3rd time this year that Beauden Barrett was made to look poor by using tactics against other players in the team. Crusaders did it twice and now the Boks.

He is going to need to up the ante when they do this as his distribution becomes second rate. He can't always rely on those in front of him to always have the upper hand.

And especially if he is going after top dollar as a 1st five in the French top 14 in the future

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#2092041 17-Sep-2018 16:18

I didn't think that Barrett looked "poor" or even poorer than the other backs on either team. Maybe it's just that I didn't mind the All Blacks losing to the Springboks - I like seeing the beleaguered underdog winning.

If the All Blacks had won on Saturday then I would have missed the many posts which I've much appreciated in this thread. They were more interesting than the articles I read.

Do you think that Barrett can hold his place in the team for the next two world cups. Even if he stays that long he'll still be a little younger than Dan Carter when he finished with the All Blacks.

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