Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2267538 30-Jun-2019 22:55

Handle9:

I haven't watched the full replay yet but the final knock on was awful. If it had happened to my team I'd be outraged as well.

Sure, but to suggest it's the only reason they didn't win the game is ridiculous. They weren't robbed any more than the calls that were missed by the ref for the Crusaders if they had lost. Calls went both ways. There was a cleanout at a breakdown that was probably yellow card worthy at least.

https://twitter.com/clubrugbylive/status/1144896357381152768

I get a bit confused why you talk about Jordie Barretts temperament, which is an innate trait. He's never come across as stupid or particularly excitable but he has made playing mistakes. I don't know that his temperament has improved, he's just gotten more experienced.

It's pretty easy to forget he's only 22 - 2 years younger than Jack Goodhue and has made mistakes in the All Black jersey that the likes of Ben Smith and Goodhue made at Mitre 10 cup level.

Whatever you want to call it. (I call a mistake when you shank the ball off the side of the foot by accident or miss touch, rather than make poor decisions because you can't think clearly under pressure) He hasn't in the past coped with pressure very well. If you want to see examples of what I mean, watch last years SR semi.

There is a LOT of pressure at a RWC, and his ability to handle that (Whether it be because of his age or not) concerns me.

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Handle9

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#2267582 30-Jun-2019 23:05

networkn:

Handle9:

I haven't watched the full replay yet but the final knock on was awful. If it had happened to my team I'd be outraged as well.

Sure, but to suggest it's the only reason they didn't win the game is ridiculous. They weren't robbed any more than the calls that were missed by the ref for the Crusaders if they had lost.

It's effectively the last play of the game and it took the ball out of the Hurricanes hands. How would you expect a Hurricanes supporter to react?

networkn:

Whatever you want to call it. (I call a mistake when you shank the ball off the side of the foot by accident or miss touch) He hasn't in the past coped with pressure very well. If you want to see examples of what I mean, watch last years SR semi.

There is a LOT of pressure at a RWC, and his ability to handle that (Whether it be because of his age or not) concerns me.

Temperament implies something a bit different to making mistakes. You can't change someone's temperament as it is innate.

I'd be just as concerned about Mounga and a number of other players who haven't played a lot of tests. It takes time.

Barrett isn't the finished product yet, he makes mistakes. The question is whether his mistakes are reducing and the things he does well make up for it. It takes time, look at the improvements that Mackenzie made last year compared to 2017. Barrett might get there, he might not, only time will really tell.

networkn

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#2268371 2-Jul-2019 12:36

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. My issue was primarily that some supporters are allowed to feel aggrieved if they are "hard done by" but there isn't a lot of tolerance if other supporters do the same. It's all very selective.

I see Crotty and Barrett are out of the final with the Jags, and may be out for a few weeks, not great news for the AB's either, though neither was likely to be playing for the AB's in the first test any way. I think we will miss Crottys steady hand for the final, but I don't think it will dramatically change the outcome.

It will be interesting to see who they bring in for those positions. Ennor/Goodhue for midfield I'd guess. I don't think they would have Romano as first choice lock to start right now.

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#2268803 2-Jul-2019 19:57

It's a really interesting side that they've named. It seems an equal measure of ruthlessness and a maybe some indecision. From what they have named it looks like they are really concerned about prop and blind side.

Aumua for Harris, Reece for Naholo, Jacobsen for Squire and Weber for TTT are a straight swaps and reasonably similar skill sets.

They also haven't picked a specialist number 8 to backup Reid so they see Ardie Savea as the backup. That makes it much more likely for Matt Todd to make the final squad.

networkn

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#2268818 2-Jul-2019 20:29

Handle9:

It's a really interesting side that they've named. It seems an equal measure of ruthlessness and a maybe some indecision. From what they have named it looks like they are really concerned about prop and blind side.

Aumua for Harris, Reece for Naholo, Jacobsen for Squire and Weber for TTT are a straight swaps and reasonably similar skill sets.

They also haven't picked a specialist number 8 to backup Reid so they see Ardie Savea as the backup. That makes it much more likely for Matt Todd to make the final squad.

I was thrilled for Ennor and Reece. I felt Naholo would miss out, he has been pretty quiet the last 18 months. He was never for me, the success at AB's level. Some players can make the step up, others just don't seem to be quite the same. It would be nice to have a blockbusting winger opposite Rieko.

I am interested as to why Squire opted out of the team and for how long isn't clear. I think he took personal time earlier in the year, I just hope he's OK.

Great for Luke Jacobsen, he certainly had a great season for the Chiefs.

I wasn't surprised Harris didn't quite get there, but was a little surprised at Aumua (though at his best he is a prodigious talent who unfortunately may struggle with weight and attitude consistency)

I couldn't hear some of the questions but I think someone asked why Akira hadn't made it. I heard some of the response but not all of it, did anyone catch the question and answer as it related to him. There was something about player to water, but I wasn't sure if that was him or not.

QA Time with the 3 selectors and the interviews afterward made for some interesting watching.

Hard not to feel TTT was a victim of not being started more regularly for the Chiefs. He really didn't get any opportunities to give a good glimpse.

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#2268910 2-Jul-2019 23:28

Another ommision was Luke Whitelock. He was solid but never stellar, but he did play a reasonable part in a number of campaigns including captaining. I wonder the reason for his omission. Admittedly I didn't watch as much Highlanders this year, but what I saw looked solid enough..

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#2268912 2-Jul-2019 23:33

networkn:

Another ommision was Luke Whitelock. He was solid but never stellar, but he did play a reasonable part in a number of campaigns including captaining. I wonder the reason for his omission. Admittedly I didn't watch as much Highlanders this year, but what I saw looked solid enough..

I guess he is viewed as someone who wouldn't have a role in the first choice world cup squad but if they need him he'd be fine to come in at short notice. Same for Harris - if they have a hooker fall over he can walk straight in.

Number 8 is very thin in this squad. I really hope Read stays fit as Savea is really the only other number 8 option here.

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#2268913 2-Jul-2019 23:38

Yeah, 8s and 10s and probably 6s right now we don't have huge depth.

I'd love to see Taufua in black but his decision to head overseas probably counted against him both in ABs and since he rode pine this season. I think his injury during training after abs selection would have been quite hard. He's a monster on form. He didn't do much wrong this year either.

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#2268914 2-Jul-2019 23:41

networkn:

I was thrilled for Ennor and Reece. I felt Naholo would miss out, he has been pretty quiet the last 18 months. He was never for me, the success at AB's level. Some players can make the step up, others just don't seem to be quite the same. It would be nice to have a blockbusting winger opposite Rieko.

I am interested as to why Squire opted out of the team and for how long isn't clear. I think he took personal time earlier in the year, I just hope he's OK.

Great for Luke Jacobsen, he certainly had a great season for the Chiefs.

I wasn't surprised Harris didn't quite get there, but was a little surprised at Aumua (though at his best he is a prodigious talent who unfortunately may struggle with weight and attitude consistency)

I couldn't hear some of the questions but I think someone asked why Akira hadn't made it. I heard some of the response but not all of it, did anyone catch the question and answer as it related to him. There was something about player to water, but I wasn't sure if that was him or not.

QA Time with the 3 selectors and the interviews afterward made for some interesting watching.

Hard not to feel TTT was a victim of not being started more regularly for the Chiefs. He really didn't get any opportunities to give a good glimpse.

Reece is going to be a high variance player. He could be great or disaster. He seems naive on defence and will get picked on by the kicking game until he proves he can diffuse the bomb and play positionally. The Hurricanes seem to have exploited his inexperience a bit in the semi.

Saying that I don't think they would start him. I'd guess he was there to cover Ioane and they're looking at Bridge or Barrett/Smith (depending on the fullback) on the other wing. Traditionally they have tried to play a wing with footwork and aerial skills on the right wing (Jane, Smith, Milner-Skudder)

I wonder if they will look at dropping Read into the pocket during box kick situations but that would make the All Blacks very thin on defence due to the way they play 3 behind the line.

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#2269086 3-Jul-2019 10:38

I agree re Reece on defence, but there will be work ons for everyone. Happy to see him included.

There are some *mighty* judgemental people around in the world of Rugby. The vitirol of his selection is extreme (from a small but vocal minority) to say the least. Yes, he was charged with assault on his GF, and that certainly isn't behaviour becoming of an AB (in fact any person), but people make mistakes, learn from them and move forward in a positive manner. I see nothing to indicate he isn't making every attempt to do that, and in my view, this mistake shouldn't have prevented his selection, and I am glad it hasn't. The AB selectors would have been getting regular reports about his disposition and his progress through the programs he undertook as a result and are obviously satisfied.

I found it refreshing to see the Coaches talking about the AB's weaknesses. They seem quietly confident about how they plan on resolving those, I certainly think that's going to be interesting to see.

I think the Crusaders have done a pretty reasonable job with managing oppositions line speed this year mostly, I am interested to know who was responsible for the tactics they use? Razor?

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#2269401 3-Jul-2019 15:45

The 1014 had some great stats and information and analysis regarding the upcoming finals match between the Crusaders and Jags. On paper, the Jags could and almost should win, if you apply the logic that the greater number of international games that players play, make them more likely to win, and some key ways they could expose the Crusaders. I don't really feel they will win, with travel, home advantage and the reality of the Crusaders combinations taken into account.

Handle9

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#2269402 3-Jul-2019 15:47

networkn:
The 1014 had some great stats and information and analysis regarding the upcoming finals match between the Crusaders and Jags. On paper, the Jags could and almost should win, if you apply the logic that the greater number of international games that players play, make them more likely to win, and some key ways they could expose the Crusaders. I don't really feel they will win, with travel, home advantage and the reality of the Crusaders combinations taken into account.

I really miss watching 1014 now they are only doing stuff on sky. They aren't on kayo are they?

networkn

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#2270762 5-Jul-2019 21:57

Not that I can see. They do have a site they post to regularly online.

I sadly note that SBW has pulled up with a tight hamstring and isn't likely for the first few matches of the Rugby Championship. That guy is having a rough run. It's unfortunate that a sports person of his talent is laid low so often!

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#2270831 6-Jul-2019 02:38

networkn:
Not that I can see. They do have a site they post to regularly online.

They haven't updated their site since March. They are pretty much sky only.

tukapa1

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#2270847 6-Jul-2019 06:46

I was sitting around the smoko table at lunchtime yesterday and the main conversation from the boys was that they all hope the Jaguares can get up and win tonight. There's a lot of online talk nationally as well supporting that view.

The general consensus seems to be that everybody is bored with the rugby at the moment and are looking for something to make it interesting again. It is very reminiscent of the feeling about rugby and Auckland in the mid 80's-early 90's. Anyone remember this?

I'm sure the Canterbury supporters want their team to win, but I wonder if there are many other NZers who support that or are rooting for the underdog?

If the Jaguares win I can't wait for Phil Kearns to comment. I met Kearns in the mid 90's (along with most of the other Wallabies of that era) when he was playing for Aussie. They were touring NZ and turned up out of the blue at my rugby club on a Saturday night for some beers. We'd played club rugby that day, had a few beers on board and weren't shy about mixing and mingling. Kearns was a good bugger, as was Ewen McKenzie. Nick Farr Jones on the other hand......

Does anybody else feel that selecting Reece at this point was a cynical move to make sure he wasn't picked by another country of eligibility? He's had some great moments on attack and finishing but he's got a lot of work ons and I wonder if he wasn't eligible for another country whether he would have been picked so soon.

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