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  # 2347406 1-Nov-2019 21:26
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I agree re the low likelihood of the older forwards reaching the next RWC but they are definitely not "spent forces" - that headline is largely click-bait because the article is more tentative. But, as usual after a major loss, it is easy to pick on purported problems.

 

At this end of the season, the game tonight will mean much more to the All Blacks playing - there's so many players with a lot to prove - than it will for most of us. Our "second" team should win this one but honestly a loss now has a lot less impact than the loss last week. That has cast such a large shadow that it's hardly likely to increase the disappointment we already have.


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  # 2347424 1-Nov-2019 22:57
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sexy rugby working well again against lesser team





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  # 2347425 1-Nov-2019 23:29
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It's hard to not wonder what could have been if they started with Ben Smith, Sonny Bill, Crotty and the Ka Mate haka last week.




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  # 2347430 2-Nov-2019 00:20
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Ragnor:

 

It's hard to not wonder what could have been if they started with Ben Smith, Sonny Bill, Crotty and the Ka Mate haka last week.

 

 

Our issue wasn't in the backs, we were massively dominated in the forwards. 


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  # 2347436 2-Nov-2019 05:16
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Hammerer:

I agree re the low likelihood of the older forwards reaching the next RWC but they are definitely not "spent forces" - that headline is largely click-bait because the article is more tentative. But, as usual after a major loss, it is easy to pick on purported problems.


<.



I think at this point they are reasonable questions. Since 2917 we've been reasonably inconsistent. Last year it was put down to preparing for the world cup. How do we explain it this year?

IMO Whitelock has one dominant game in 2 years, Franks fell apart and while Reid was still very good he wasn't the same player after his back injury.

Whitelock used to be an outstanding lineout forward who would win opposition throws and dominate the kickoff. He's not at that level anymore. He's still of international calibre but he's no longer being mentioned in the top draw.

Our scrum and lineout aren't dominant anymore. It's time for a bit of a reset and the first step should be assessing where we really are and who we should build around for 2023.

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  # 2347442 2-Nov-2019 07:41
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networkn:

 

Ragnor:

 

It's hard to not wonder what could have been if they started with Ben Smith, Sonny Bill, Crotty and the Ka Mate haka last week.

 

 

Our issue wasn't in the backs, we were massively dominated in the forwards. 

 

 

while that may be the case, i believe the inexperienced backs didn't do any favours.

 

i was watching the most dominant forward pack so far vs the little boys outside the sweet shop type mismatch

 

England vs Australia 2003

 

the English forwards absolutely monstered the Wallabies forwards, their scrum was an immovable object.

 

but their backs starting with George Gregan and the entire backline just found a different way to play and they were close. went to 2 cycles of extra time before the forwards grinded up to the 10m line and gave the ball to Jonny.

 

while our forwards were monstered (lack of the tenacity of Cane didn't help), the score-at-will young Reece was absolutely lost and was in no man's land. while mullet man may have given us 2 line breaks, the presence and solidity of SBW - Crotty would have given the AB some chance

 

as we saw the run at all costs combined with kicks that only reached the 22, there was no chance. so some chance with not running at all costs against the effective rush-D and accurate kicks to 50m would be better. when reece got the ball once out wide he saw 3 english defenders and chose to try to beat them all and got bundled to touch - I thought Ben Smith would have held on to the ball in that situation. but as you said we probably would have still lost. 





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  # 2347443 2-Nov-2019 07:44
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Sorry I missed you calling for them all to play before the semi...

 
 
 
 


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  # 2347444 2-Nov-2019 07:53
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Handle9: Sorry I missed you calling for them all to play before the semi...

 

the coach does what he wants. i would have played Ben smith at FB all tournament. just like I would have played Christian Cullen in 2003 (which also would have made little difference if not weakening the team!). but the coach played a few youths in 2015 (did they turn out to be one hit wonders? didn't see NMS after the WC) and the gamble paid off. just not this time with double the number of youths, that's how the cookie crumbles.

 

and i'm not upset the ABs loss. I just saw that the lack of experience when under pressure with the wrong options taken didn't help them. keyboard warriors are amazingly good at that, it's their specialty.

 

I enjoyed 2 really good games of rugby last week, both quite different.





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  # 2347449 2-Nov-2019 08:20
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Ragnor:

 

It's hard to not wonder what could have been if they started with Ben Smith, Sonny Bill, Crotty and the Ka Mate haka last week.

 

 

put it this way, we would not have gotten to farewell SBW, RC, and BS in the perfect ceremonial match if the ABs won last week.





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  # 2347533 2-Nov-2019 10:29
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Almost flawless performance by all blacks. SBW and Retalic are the machines! Great farewell for Ben Smith!





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  # 2347567 2-Nov-2019 12:35
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Man what a difference. I put that game's watchability being down solely to Barnes policing the dicking around at the back of the ruck. Owens took until the 78th minute last week to tell the English to 'use it' and it massive slowed the game down to a crawl.


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  # 2347569 2-Nov-2019 12:42
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GV27:

 

Man what a difference. I put that game's watchability being down solely to Barnes policing the dicking around at the back of the ruck. Owens took until the 78th minute last week to tell the English to 'use it' and it massive slowed the game down to a crawl.

 

 

It was a difference as its a lesser team


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  # 2347570 2-Nov-2019 12:47
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tdgeek:

 

GV27:

 

Man what a difference. I put that game's watchability being down solely to Barnes policing the dicking around at the back of the ruck. Owens took until the 78th minute last week to tell the English to 'use it' and it massive slowed the game down to a crawl.

 

 

It was a difference as its a lesser team

 

 

I'm pretty sure the pace of the game is as much dictated by how much the ref lets a team slow the game down more than the actual quality of the match-up. 

 

A cynic would say that that is perhaps a huge source of the English's strength - the refs expect a grind so they let the whole game collapse to an unwatchable slow and sorry mess. 

 

I am a cynic and nothing I have seen suggests otherwise. 


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  # 2347577 2-Nov-2019 12:54
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

GV27:

 

Man what a difference. I put that game's watchability being down solely to Barnes policing the dicking around at the back of the ruck. Owens took until the 78th minute last week to tell the English to 'use it' and it massive slowed the game down to a crawl.

 

 

It was a difference as its a lesser team

 

 

I'm pretty sure the pace of the game is as much dictated by how much the ref lets a team slow the game down more than the actual quality of the match-up. 

 

A cynic would say that that is perhaps a huge source of the English's strength - the refs expect a grind so they let the whole game collapse to an unwatchable slow and sorry mess. 

 

I am a cynic and nothing I have seen suggests otherwise. 

 

 

I haven't found ENG games being an unwatchable mess. Its a gane of strategy, if slowing it down works, and within the rules then do it. if a fast paced game works, do it. The opposition will always be trying to counter their opponents game plan, that's sport. Perhaps we select one referee for the entire tournament but thats not workable. Simplistically ENG are a better team than WAL, so WAL be easier to manage. But if referees dominate discussion as has happened in this tournament, something needs to change. They seem always to be worthy of blame


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  # 2347624 2-Nov-2019 15:19
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The Welsh look spent 5 days ago, and they were hardly moving last night. The reason? Possibly coz FRA ENG SA AB got a one match break albeit an easy match for some, but still a break nonetheless.




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