Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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# 2347714 3-Nov-2019 09:18

tdgeek:

I dont fully subscribe to the final last week comment that we have read all week.

Ah yes, the old 'can't accept the other team were deserving winners' throwback.

They got done. It was glorious.

GV27

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# 2347715 3-Nov-2019 09:20

(not referring to you, TD, but a lot of English social media somehow suggesting that last week was the real final).

I'm not sure that the AB v Wales All Blacks could have beaten that South African team. It's something we will sadly never know.

tdgeek

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# 2347717 3-Nov-2019 09:23

This was a great stat they mentioned in commentary

Makazole Mapimpi is being hailed as South Africa's drought breaker after scoring the Springboks' first try in a Rugby World Cup final at the third attempt.

Remarkably, South Africa had gone 265 minutes without scoring a World Cup final try until Mapimpi touched down in the 66th minute against England in Yokohama on Saturday night.

The Springboks beat England 32-12 to retain their proud record of having never lost a Rugby World Cup final following earlier triumphs in 1995 and 2007.

Goes to show, its the final, even though its no different to the 1/4's and semis where you HAVE to win, the final is different. Typically low scoring as no one wants to be bold, best to be safe in case the run of the ball goes against you. Even so, quite an amazing stat

Batman

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# 2347718 3-Nov-2019 09:26

Batman:

I was very touched by the SA captain's story. His family was so poor they had no TV to watch the RWC in 2007. He had no money for food in university

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-kids-had-to-buy-siya-kolisi-lunch-he-had-nothing-sz38c6tb7

ok the captain touched me, now the coach impressed me as well

“The one thing I don’t want to do is sound very clever now, because I know that pisses a lot of people off when you sound clever about things you’ve done beforehand,” he said. The scrummaging, he explained, was just the result of the way he had managed his players’ workload. “I think it is because of the 6-2 split we’ve used on the bench in the last few games,” he said. England’s props had been playing “60, 70 minutes” every week for the last seven weeks “and a load like that will take its toll”.

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

tdgeek

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# 2347719 3-Nov-2019 09:34

GV27:

(not referring to you, TD, but a lot of English social media somehow suggesting that last week was the real final).

I'm not sure that the AB v Wales All Blacks could have beaten that South African team. It's something we will sadly never know.

Ah ok. While there seems to be something in it from what Conrad said and elsewhere, I could see it being a physical thing. But mentally, its the final. And the opposition also played last week.

AB vs Wales, RSA vs Wales, a betting man would be all over ENG. The different game styles matters. That beat us, kicking and territory was better than AB;s running game. ENG was powerful that day as well as able to run, Last night RSA was more powerful than ENG in the kick and grind, but perhaps it over time became an onslaught that they cannot move forward with, wore them down physically and mentally.

If NZ played RSA they way AB's can play and RSA can play, its about tactics. Really hard to say how it would go. Can we find holes, or can we stop leaking penalties f we play in our half? Its getting more an more a chess game IMHO

tdgeek

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# 2347720 3-Nov-2019 09:37

Batman:

Batman:

I was very touched by the SA captain's story. His family was so poor they had no TV to watch the RWC in 2007. He had no money for food in university

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-kids-had-to-buy-siya-kolisi-lunch-he-had-nothing-sz38c6tb7

ok the captain touched me, now the coach impressed me as well

“The one thing I don’t want to do is sound very clever now, because I know that pisses a lot of people off when you sound clever about things you’ve done beforehand,” he said. The scrummaging, he explained, was just the result of the way he had managed his players’ workload. “I think it is because of the 6-2 split we’ve used on the bench in the last few games,” he said. England’s props had been playing “60, 70 minutes” every week for the last seven weeks “and a load like that will take its toll”.

Agree. Great sentiments. While Eddie Jones had worked the oracle, the above comments, and how he benched the forwards was an eye opener. Decided/hoped a tactic was a key, then bet it all on the forwards. Was it Henry that said his bench is better than the starters? Loaded?

GV27

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# 2347722 3-Nov-2019 09:41

tdgeek:

If NZ played RSA they way AB's can play and RSA can play, its about tactics. Really hard to say how it would go. Can we find holes, or can we stop leaking penalties f we play in our half? Its getting more an more a chess game IMHO

Hopefully, with the benefit of hindsight, we can tighten up on discipline. We seem to have let niggle creep into our game a bit in recent years. Moody, who has been one of the worst offenders, had an almost flawless game on Friday and didn't get involved in anything off the ball or stupid shots. It was like they'd regained focus. It was like ABs discipline of old.

I'm looking forward to next year's Rugby Championship. New Australian coach, an energised World Championship Springboks and an All Blacks team with something to prove for the next four years. It's sad that there isn't room for the Rising Sun, but hopefully the Pumas can come to the party.

The most interesting stuff will, as usual, be happening in the Southern Hemisphere. What a shame we still won't see the global comp or Pacific Nations uplift that we all know *should* be happening, but isn't.

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# 2347725 3-Nov-2019 09:47

another gem i unearthed

“From the very first meeting in Joburg, Coach Rassie was very straightforward,” said Kolisi.

“He said we were getting quite a lot of money and doing lots of things off the field, but we didn’t make rugby the main thing.

“He told us straight; it has to change, the Springboks are more important than our personal goals .

“There are so many people who spend their last salary to come and see us play.

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

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# 2347726 3-Nov-2019 10:00

i recall Graham Henry was the first guy to use 5 forwards and 3 backs on the bench and made it a game of 60-20, bringing on the bench in the last 20 to finish the job.

rugby has just evolved into a bench of 6 forwards and 2 backs!

now all the teams are going to have to find 2 utility backs - one who can cover 9 10 15 and one who can cover 12 13. 11 and 14 is kind of anyone can play there sort of thing. i recall a lock playing at wing when we ran out of subs once. (or maybe it was australia)

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

tdgeek

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# 2347727 3-Nov-2019 10:07

Batman:

i recall Graham Henry was the first guy to use 5 forwards and 3 backs on the bench and made it a game of 60-20, bringing on the bench in the last 20 to finish the job.

rugby has just evolved into a bench of 6 forwards and 2 backs!

now all the teams are going to have to find 2 utility backs - one who can cover 9 10 15 and one who can cover 12 13. 11 and 14 is kind of anyone can play there sort of thing. i recall a lock playing at wing when we ran out of subs once. (or maybe it was australia)

Maybe.But a running games wins big. A boring low try, play in you half also wins big. The trick is to play the game that suits our team, BUT have options when the other side plays another game. I felt AB;s were one dimensional when ENG beat us, when AUS beat us. We need to change the game styleIN a game, not next week when we fought back.

Battles of the brains more and more.

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# 2347861 3-Nov-2019 20:47

I must admit I haven’t watched the final yet due to work commitments. After the NZ vs ENG semi, I hoped ENG would go on to win the Cup, but that was changed during the week by an Eddie Jones press conference where his arrogance and put down of Warren Gatland (enjoy the third-fourth playoff) changed my opinion. I’m glad SA beat them (comprehensively it would appear) and the way the English players refused to wear their silver medals, as if someone was trying to hang a turd around their necks, just reinforced that.

Sports Journalist Stephen Jones loves to poke sticks at the arrogance of the All Blacks, but the true colours of the English players have been exposed. I would like to think that Anton Lienert-Brown’s partial down-trou in the last play of Friday’s game was a special signal to the likes of Stephen Jones.

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# 2347863 3-Nov-2019 20:51

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To be fair to Eddie he was responding to Garlands dig that England may have played their final against NZ (which also happened to be true).

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# 2347866 3-Nov-2019 21:08

Handle9: To be fair to Eddie he was responding to Garlands dig that England may have played their final against NZ (which also happened to be true).

I agree, but a better response may have been, “No, our best game is yet to come”, because what he did was kick a man when he was down. That Gatland was proved correct is karma at work (IMO).

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networkn

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# 2347869 3-Nov-2019 21:16

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Congratulations to a deserving South Africa on their win. I watched the game live, and to be honest, was probably surprised both by the result, and the margin at the end. The first 60 minutes were what I expected, though it was obvious almost immediately that England weren't going to have the same advantage over South Africa they had over us. SA stepped up and matched their physicality and then some. There were some records broken, some new results for SA, and they can be proud of their performance.

I can't help but wonder who would have won that game if the final had been SA vs NZL. SA won the physicality battle, but I wonder if England of last week had played them, what the result would have been.

I have found it quite interesting that Steve Hansen has been pretty repetitive in his view that the AB's had an off day, rather than didn't have the personnel to win against England playing the way they did. I have always found SH to be a pretty honest individual, if not slightly too defensive of his players. Only another match would probably tell us, and it's a long way off, and the situation and players will be different.

The last 6 weeks have been excellent. I very much enjoyed the 2015's tournament, and I am unsure that I think this one was better, but I very much enjoyed it as well. Japan were awesome hosts, in my opinion, better than England.

I am looking forward to getting my life back, Rugby has consumed me for 7 weeks, and I feel pretty sad, as I did in 2015, that so many greats of our games will not be on the field next year. I am excited to see if we can evolve and continue to improve and get our 1st place ranking back, and I am interested to see how some of the other teams develop, such as Japan, Uraguay, Fiji, and even to some degree, England, Ireland and Wales. Next year I will be keen to see a bit more Northern Hemisphere Rugby.

Steve Hansen, is in my opinion, the games greatest ever coach (at least in my Rugby Memory), certainly the AB's greatest. I have great admiration for a person who will demand better standards and constant improvement from his players, whilst clearly seeking to improve his own shortcomings.

I think Rugby in NZ is going to look quite different next year. Whilst we will have some players who have moved from mid to senior players, many of those players are taking extended breaks, and it will be interesting to see how leadership forms in their absence.

I feel we are pretty sorted in the backs, and our focus right now is to get our forwards into the shape of England and probably South Africa. I think for the first time in a long time, the AB's will need to accept that they aren't leading the way with the same margin (if at all), and it will be interesting to see how the new coaches respond to that, and how the players in NZ will respond and answer this.

I am extremely keen for the AB's not to go back to grinding Rugby. There is a place for it, but I have unfond memories of many a low scoring game dominated by penalty kicks in the long past.

Handle9

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# 2347872 3-Nov-2019 21:46

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Dingbatt:
Handle9: To be fair to Eddie he was responding to Garlands dig that England may have played their final against NZ (which also happened to be true).

I agree, but a better response may have been, “No, our best game is yet to come”, because what he did was kick a man when he was down. That Gatland was proved correct is karma at work (IMO).

Gatland gave him grief so Eddie gave it back. It's hardly arrogance.

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