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  #1336273 3-Jul-2015 10:28
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blair003: Yeah, but is Dagg fit? He's had so little rugby and the 5 tests before the world cup doesn't give him a lot of time to come right. Clearly you need Savea and Smith on the park though.


I did see a report he did well in the team fitness tests. I think he has had lingering issues for a while, and they kept bringing him back too soon. I think he opted out of SR pretty much to ensure his fitness for the RWC, I suspect in agreement with Steve Hansen. 

I see Nahalo as a backup winger and spending a lot of time warming the bench unless there are injuries. Slade whilst an excellent player, wouldn't be my first choice on the wing. 

I think it will be Savea and Smith on Wings, Dagg at Full Back (Assuming Fit). Nahalo on Bench covering. 

I'd be interested to see Naholo at Centre too. I see they bought Ngatai in as cover, and that is probably sensible, I honestly see we are weak there. 

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  #1336277 3-Jul-2015 10:40
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I dont trust Dagg in one v ones on defence - has the tendency to be beaten.  Smith made him look average last season, and more recently under the high ball he has been rubbish.  His attacking play for the AB's more recently was OK but he never stood out.  His super season early this year was great, but then he went off injured.  Its a competitive spot, and is no longer the man for the job, include in Nehe, and Nahalo and suddenly it looks like there isnt a lot of room for someone not at their best.

PS thought that list was great, 2 best flankers in the comp are Sam Cane & Ardie Saevea with  a single point in it, reaffirms my point - cheers for that.

 
 
 
 




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  #1336288 3-Jul-2015 10:52
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itxtme: I dont trust Dagg in one v ones on defence - has the tendency to be beaten.  Smith made him look average last season, and more recently under the high ball he has been rubbish.  His attacking play for the AB's more recently was OK but he never stood out.  His super season early this year was great, but then he went off injured.  Its a competitive spot, and is no longer the man for the job, include in Nehe, and Nahalo and suddenly it looks like there isnt a lot of room for someone not at their best.

PS thought that list was great, 2 best flankers in the comp are Sam Cane & Ardie Saevea with  a single point in it, reaffirms my point - cheers for that.


I'd be interested to see some missed tackle stats on Israel Dagg, he has made some amazing try saving tackles.  My understanding is that Full Backs tend to miss more tackles in general because they are the last line of defense and usually by the time they are required to make tackles the attacking player has a full head of steam, which is obviously harder to tackle than a guy just starting to move. Steve Hansen and Henry tends to value experience and it's hard to argue considering our win/loss ratios under those players. 

I am all for new players being blooded, but I think there is a tendency of NZ Rugby punters to focus on the new shiny thing! I'd be a lot more keen on Nehe is he had more than a single good season at SR under his belt. I do think he is a great player with a lot of potential, but we have seen a lot of them come and go.


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  #1336303 3-Jul-2015 11:06
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I would argue that punters often want to keep players who should be dropped.. Carter.

"Experience"
"mana"
"yes he's been craps all year but he will be great on the day"




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  #1336314 3-Jul-2015 11:17
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afe66: I would argue that punters often want to keep players who should be dropped.. Carter.

"Experience"
"mana"
"yes he's been craps all year but he will be great on the day"



There are really only 2-3 players that have earned that right, and they HAVE earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt. 

At the end of the day, that approach has seen us completely dominate Rugby for nearly 10 years. Our dominance has been largely attributable to a few key players who are above all others.

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  #1336326 3-Jul-2015 11:28
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I'm curious how many bad games would you allow before you drop someone from All Blacks.

At super 15 level
All black game
All black game at world cup.

A.



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  #1336340 3-Jul-2015 11:49
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afe66: I'm curious how many bad games would you allow before you drop someone from All Blacks.

At super 15 level
All black game
All black game at world cup.

A.


Would largely depend on lots of factors like how many good games they had, how long they had played, suitable and proven replacement availability.

I don't recall DC having had many BAD games (There is . The issue is more than he hasn't performed to the standard he used to, but that still puts him well above lots of international number 10's. 

I'd feel a lot happier losing Dagg if we had Ben Smith able to boom a ball down field the same way, but he doesn't. I don't personally feel in the SR games I watched this year, that NZ has been as good under the high ball as in previous seasons, it's been fairly variable. It may just be the new rules around tackling in the air too.

I guess I am unlike some other people, in so far as I'd give RM and DC the benefit of the doubt even if it cost us the World Cup, because whilst of course I'd love to get a back to back win, the RWC isn't the be all and end all. I think those guys deserve a chance if they want it, they have earned it. In reality, those guys will stand up, I am pretty sure.

Richie has been written off so many times and then had a strong season.

I'd rather be best 95% of the time than best 5% of the time and win a RWC.



 
 
 
 


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  #1336392 3-Jul-2015 12:53
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I guess I am unlike some other people, in so far as I'd give RM and DC the benefit of the doubt even if it cost us the World Cup, because whilst of course I'd love to get a back to back win, the RWC isn't the be all and end all. I think those guys deserve a chance if they want it, they have earned it. In reality, those guys will stand up, I am pretty sure.


Sounds like the Johnny Wilkinson sago.  Nobody earns the right based on years before to lose us the world cup, thats crazy.

Had a quick look at Daggs stats, only played 5 super games, so hard to give data a fare comparison.  Although the most interesting stat Turnovers Conceded, vs Ben smith 12:14 or another way to look at it

Turnovers
Dagg - 2.4 a game
Smith  - 0.8 a game



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  #1336430 3-Jul-2015 13:41
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itxtme:
I guess I am unlike some other people, in so far as I'd give RM and DC the benefit of the doubt even if it cost us the World Cup, because whilst of course I'd love to get a back to back win, the RWC isn't the be all and end all. I think those guys deserve a chance if they want it, they have earned it. In reality, those guys will stand up, I am pretty sure.


Sounds like the Johnny Wilkinson sago.  Nobody earns the right based on years before to lose us the world cup, thats crazy.

Had a quick look at Daggs stats, only played 5 super games, so hard to give data a fare comparison.  Although the most interesting stat Turnovers Conceded, vs Ben smith 12:14 or another way to look at it

Turnovers
Dagg - 2.4 a game
Smith  - 0.8 a game


You're assuming that directly or heavily associated with them would be the reason for losing the world cup. I think they have earned the right to be present and make a contribution if they feel they can.

If DC has to kick the Winning Penalty in the final and misses, does this make him the reason for losing? What is the guarantee a more in form player makes the shot anyways?



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  #1336450 3-Jul-2015 14:16
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The AB coaches have shown faith in the tried and tested players, even after long lay offs or poor form in Super Rugby. Take Nonu for instance, completely different player when in the AB's compared to his stints with the Blues and Highlanders.

I'm astounded how many people are writing off McCaw and Carter. Let's see how they go aganist Samoa, Argentina, South Africa and Australia before declaring them unfit to represent us at the WC.

My team for the WC knock out matches...providing everyone is fit.

1. Woodcock
2. Coles
3. O. Franks
4. Whitelock
5. Retallick
6. Kaino
7. McCaw
8. Read
9. A. Smith
10. Carter
11. Savea
12. Nonu
13. C. Smith
14. Jane
15. B.Smith

16. B. Franks
17. Faumuina 
18. Mealamu
19. Broadhurst
20. Vito
21. Perenara
22. Barrett
23. Williams



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  #1337099 4-Jul-2015 21:50
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Commiserations to the Hurricanes and their fans. Congratulations to the Highlanders, and their fans!

Great game of football. Played at a pace that pretty much stopped the commentary from keeping up at times!

Glad I wasn't TMO Skeen, that call he made to award the try was a big call. I don't think I'd have called it the same way, but it's all history now. Had to feel handling errors were the difference really. 

Unfortunate for the big names in the Hurricanes to miss out on a title. 

Hurricanes played amazing Rugby all year, really to be congratulated on that regardless.


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  #1337104 4-Jul-2015 21:59
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So the Landers took on the Ozzy front row last week and pretty much the All Black this week. I reckon we just enter The Highlanders into RWC 2015 :)



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  #1337109 4-Jul-2015 22:02
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lxsw20: So the Landers took on the Ozzy front row last week and pretty much the All Black this week. I reckon we just enter The Highlanders into RWC 2015 :)


I think the Crusaders would have something to say about that.

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  #1337111 4-Jul-2015 22:09
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Who?

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  #1337116 4-Jul-2015 22:10
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networkn:
lxsw20: So the Landers took on the Ozzy front row last week and pretty much the All Black this week. I reckon we just enter The Highlanders into RWC 2015 :)


I think the Crusaders would have something to say about that.


While they are watching finals football on TV😬

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