Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2681406 27-Mar-2021 13:39

Hurricanes v Highlanders.

I think that was the worst I can recall the Highlanders playing for quite a number of years. Jordie Barrett had a great night at the office and spoiled poor Aaron Smiths party. The refeering group in NZ are in some sort of slump right now. Pickerill doesn't commuicate as much around the breakdown and ruck as some others and just gives the penalties, which doesn't really allow the game to flow quite as much. For me, Barrett is well ahead of MacKenzie right now for Full Back. Dmac is quite brave, though his defensive reads can be suspect, he just doesn't have the height, weight or strength to be the last defender. Barrett also has a far bigger boot. Barrett seems to have overcome his wobbles from a season or so ago, Dmac is still too mercurial. I am really hope they do away with Barrett on the wing this season. If we must have Reiko Ioane on the field, then he should be back on the wing. There are so many talented and inform players in the backs right now, fantastic players are going to be missing out all season long on AB's positions, though I heard we are potentially looking at 15 test matches this year, so I guess they will play a horses for courses

Right now my predictions for sporting event outcomes is really poor. I got all the quarters, semis and finals wrong for the CIB Squash 2021 Tournament, and now this game. I am just glad I don't have a horse in the race :)

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#2681862 28-Mar-2021 09:16

Well, I am now 0/10 predictions this week. Just as well I didn't put money anywhere! (I don't bet).

It seems to me that the same old Blues fralities are apparent. They can be competition winners, but if they lose a game they are expecting to win, they take a few weeks to get 'right' again. Perhaps a bit tough, there are some very good improvements in that team overall, but really, they should have smashed the Chiefs last night with that Roster. It was helter skelter for 80 minutes, not much structured Rugby, just spray and pray (From both teams). Entertaining to a sort, but neither team had much control of anything.

My son, a Blues supporter, was inconsolable (again) losing at the death, whereas I was almost expecting it could happen. Dmac was pretty much all over the place, brilliant in many ways, awful in others (Mostly in defense), but he really pulled it out when it was needed, so, good on him for being able to find that hole.

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#2682076 28-Mar-2021 19:36

McKenzie had a massive defensive game against the Blues, on a number of occasions being the only thing that stopped a try. Including tackling Caleb Clark at full speed. However, he is just too small when compared to someone like J Barrett, and unfortunately, Mo’unga is a better first five.

While I’m glad McKenzie stole it at the death, I was seething that Papalii was still on the field after a deliberate knock on in the ‘red zone’ that prevented a possible Chiefs try. As soon as the decision was changed to a penalty, it had to be a yellow card, both because of where it was on the field, and the Blues having already been warned.

The Blues scrum was dominated at times and although not as comprehensively as happened against the Crusaders, they should have been better than the Chiefs when you look at the talent available.

In the Hurricanes/Highlanders game, the ref’s decision to reverse a penalty for a minor shove, that gave the Hurricanes a relieving kick, kind of summed the game up for me. The Highlanders hot on attack, only for ‘fate’ to intervene. Yet other shoving and off the ball play in the rest of the game went unpunished.

At the halfway point in the competition the Crusaders are clearly the best team. And while I was convinced 2 weeks ago that first (Crusaders) and last (Chiefs) places had already been decided, now I’m not so sure (places 2-5).

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#2682086 28-Mar-2021 19:49

Dingbatt:

McKenzie had a massive defensive game against the Blues, on a number of occasions being the only thing that stopped a try. Including tackling Caleb Clark at full speed. However, he is just too small when compared to someone like J Barrett, and unfortunately, Mo’unga is a better first five.

While I’m glad McKenzie stole it at the death, I was seething that Papalii was still on the field after a deliberate knock on in the ‘red zone’ that prevented a possible Chiefs try. As soon as the decision was changed to a penalty, it had to be a yellow card, both because of where it was on the field, and the Blues having already been warned.

McKenzie was pretty huge for the Chiefs last night, but he made some pretty average defensive calls, missed a number of tackles. I am not sure the stats, but what I saw gave me the impression it was fairly mixed. Him stopping Clarke was really in my opinion, inexperience by Clarke. Clarke should really have been able to head slightly toward the posts, in those last few meters and he would have scored. McKenzie is brave, but as you say, really too small to be your last line of defense.

Agree with your sentiment on Papaili, I was surprised it wasn't yellow.

In the Hurricanes/Highlanders game, the ref’s decision to reverse a penalty for a minor shove, that gave the Hurricanes a relieving kick, kind of summed the game up for me. The Highlanders hot on attack, only for ‘fate’ to intervene. Yet other shoving and off the ball play in the rest of the game went unpunished.

At the halfway point in the competition the Crusaders are clearly the best team. And while I was convinced 2 weeks ago that first (Crusaders) and last (Chiefs) places had already been decided, now I’m not so sure (places 2-5).

I honestly think the referring this season is at an all time low. It's really very grim. We have some excellent referees, but I think they have either been given too much to focus on, or have been told to focus on things which is making it impossible to do the job well overall.

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#2682231 29-Mar-2021 01:51

Handle9: It looks pretty likely that Rob Penney will get fired this week. NSW are a shambles. I really hope Andrew Hore doesn't bring a similar mess to the Blues.

It's really interesting how unsuccessful most of the ex-Crusaders assistants have been outside of Christchurch.

Penney managed to survive 3 more weeks. Another one bites the dust.

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#2682237 29-Mar-2021 07:02

Dingbatt:

While I’m glad McKenzie stole it at the death, I was seething that Papalii was still on the field after a deliberate knock on in the ‘red zone’ that prevented a possible Chiefs try. As soon as the decision was changed to a penalty, it had to be a yellow card, both because of where it was on the field, and the Blues having already been warned.

In the Crusaders game, Whitelock deliberately swatted the ball forward to stifle a Blues movement without repercussion so that may be the universe balancing itself out in some weird way.

The Blues are in danger of going backwards at the moment. They look like a much less cohesive team than last year - this might as well be a pre-season for all the poor discipline and lack of organisation on defence. Has anyone told them that we're playing the real competition at the moment? I had high hopes after last year but the lack of discipline is doing my head in.

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#2682296 29-Mar-2021 08:18

Handle9:
Handle9: It looks pretty likely that Rob Penney will get fired this week. NSW are a shambles. I really hope Andrew Hore doesn't bring a similar mess to the Blues.

It's really interesting how unsuccessful most of the ex-Crusaders assistants have been outside of Christchurch.

Penney managed to survive 3 more weeks. Another one bites the dust.

I'll be surprised if that fixes the 'Tahs. He was handed a crappy roster with most of their keystone players moving on early in his tenure which was apparently outside of his control. Plenty of commentaries the board should follow him out the door for their poor decision making in the past 3 years.

My gut feeling is that he didn't suddenly become a bad coach just because he left NZ, similar to that of Robbie Deans.

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#2682688 29-Mar-2021 17:58

networkn:

I'll be surprised if that fixes the 'Tahs. He was handed a crappy roster with most of their keystone players moving on early in his tenure which was apparently outside of his control. Plenty of commentaries the board should follow him out the door for their poor decision making in the past 3 years.

My gut feeling is that he didn't suddenly become a bad coach just because he left NZ, similar to that of Robbie Deans.

If he was ever that good to begin with or if he was a product of reflected glory from the Canterbury system.

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#2682897 30-Mar-2021 08:55

Handle9:

If he was ever that good to begin with or if he was a product of reflected glory from the Canterbury system.

He's a very good coach, you don't hold down 15 years in a head coaches role in 4 different countries if your a rubbish coach. As previous posters have stated he got dealt a poor roster and he's the scapegoat.

The Waratahs won't improve this year, its not a coaching issue.

Speaking of coaches under pressure, how long is Tony Brown going to last at the Highlanders...? Bottom of the table and his decisions in constantly changing the team is showing through in results.

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#2682955 30-Mar-2021 10:24

Handle9:

networkn:

I'll be surprised if that fixes the 'Tahs. He was handed a crappy roster with most of their keystone players moving on early in his tenure which was apparently outside of his control. Plenty of commentaries the board should follow him out the door for their poor decision making in the past 3 years.

My gut feeling is that he didn't suddenly become a bad coach just because he left NZ, similar to that of Robbie Deans.

If he was ever that good to begin with or if he was a product of reflected glory from the Canterbury system.

LOLOL.

So when he is successful it's someone else's doing, but when he isn't successful it's all on him? Good one.

I am surprised you can walk straight with a anti-Canterbury chip of that size on your shoulder :)

You could, of course, be entirely right, it's a fluke and when they replace him the Warratahs will magically recover.

Or you know, it could be multifactorial.

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#2684003 30-Mar-2021 11:29

Who are the coaches to come out of the Canterbury system in the last 10 years who have had success away from Canterbury?

Their performance ranges from mediocre to toxic.

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#2684021 30-Mar-2021 12:03

Handle9: Who are the coaches to come out of the Canterbury system in the last 10 years who have had success away from Canterbury?

Their performance ranges from mediocre to toxic.

Leon MacDonald has done better with the Blues, though admittedly, from the last two showings they are still a work in progress. The Blues have had what, 6 coaches and really haven't gone far, it's almost like it's probably not a coaching issue?

Not every coach will succeed with every team, that doesn't make them bad coaches. Brilliant coaches and Brilliant teams can often just not work well together. Warren Gatland who you hold in high regard, hardly bathed himself or the Chiefs in glory last year. Doesn't make him a bad coach.

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#2684195 30-Mar-2021 16:47

networkn:

Handle9: Who are the coaches to come out of the Canterbury system in the last 10 years who have had success away from Canterbury?

Their performance ranges from mediocre to toxic.

Leon MacDonald has done better with the Blues, though admittedly, from the last two showings they are still a work in progress. The Blues have had what, 6 coaches and really haven't gone far, it's almost like it's probably not a coaching issue?

Not every coach will succeed with every team, that doesn't make them bad coaches. Brilliant coaches and Brilliant teams can often just not work well together. Warren Gatland who you hold in high regard, hardly bathed himself or the Chiefs in glory last year. Doesn't make him a bad coach.

So there haven’t been any particularly successful coaches come out of the Canterbury setup in a long time. There is a pretty extensive track record now.

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#2684492 31-Mar-2021 09:03

Handle9: Who are the coaches to come out of the Canterbury system in the last 10 years who have had success away from Canterbury?

Their performance ranges from mediocre to toxic.

Who have coached Canterbury/Crusaders and gone onto other things?

Vern Cotter - Crusaders now with Scotland

Todd Blackadder - Crusaders now head of rugby at Bath

Brad Mooar - Crusaders now assistant All Blacks coach

Leon McDonald - Played Crusaders - Blues Coach

Not to mention Robbie Deans, Wayne Smith, Steve Hansen or mark Hammett who all coached the Crusaders

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#2684807 31-Mar-2021 14:40

The Highlanders have made it very hard on themselves to win in Christchurch in the weekend with 7 players stood down for breaching team protocols. Having said that, nothing would surprise me at this point.

I really like the way that NZ Rugby teams hold their players accountable for their actions. This is an area I think we do better than many countries, though it's so much better overall across Rugby in general.

I think some good work was put in a number of years ago after Rugby was often in the news for the bad behaviour of their players.

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