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  Reply # 1352039 26-Jul-2015 16:34
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itxtme:
Dingbatt: Edit: I thought Dagg had a good game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hiwa-7TMrU4

Really?  Had some good touches, but he also made some bad decisions.  Great catch under the highball then throws a hospital pass to Kerian Reid which immediately results in a try (1.33)

5.45 in he comes up to the line, and misses his man = try.  Better view at 6.22, he is so far off reading the game.  Thats 14 points..  Sorry he isnt up to scratch.  Like I said last week, with so much space against the Argies he looked good, when the games tighter, not so much.

Cant say I even remember his kicking, which is apparently amazing.  The public is tough on him because we can all remember what he was like in 2010 






I'm with you but I fear we are both wasting our breath on here.

I sincerely hope that was the last game Dagg plays for the AB's this year.

We can't afford to hope he comes into some sort of form just in time for the World Cup.  We've been waiting for him to find form for at least 3 years now and he hasn't.

We have plenty of other options and don't need him.  How anybody could pick Dagg in a back three combo when you have Savea, Piutau and Smith would leave me speechless.

After Sopoaga's showing I think Slade may be a bit nervous about his place in the squad, although Slade has a proven quality about him and it would be nice to see more of Sopoaga.  I believe if Hansen gives Sopoaga a run against Aussie, and he takes his chances, then Slade may miss out.

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  Reply # 1352056 26-Jul-2015 17:07
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itxtme:
Dingbatt: Edit: I thought Dagg had a good game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hiwa-7TMrU4

Really?  Had some good touches, but he also made some bad decisions.  Great catch under the highball then throws a hospital pass to Kerian Reid which immediately results in a try (1.33)

5.45 in he comes up to the line, and misses his man = try.  Better view at 6.22, he is so far off reading the game.  Thats 14 points..  Sorry he isnt up to scratch.  Like I said last week, with so much space against the Argies he looked good, when the games tighter, not so much.

Cant say I even remember his kicking, which is apparently amazing.  The public is tough on him because we can all remember what he was like in 2010 



OK I'll bite. I think that in this instance you are dead wrong. Dagg has drifted wide because the centre was covered by both Smith and Nonu who made a complete hash of the tackle on him. Meanwhile the you have the I think full back (I think, can't see his jersey) and wing in oodles of space with only Piatau marking them. Putting the try on Dagg is BS. Nonu and Smith have both gone onto one man and both missed. They have responsibility for the try.

If Dagg doesn't drift out they go around the back, score in the corner and your pillorying Dagg for covering a runner which Conrad Smith and Nonu have both marked.

Incidentally I think that SA did a really good job manipulating space and creating numbers in the centres today. Given they scored twice through the centres with similar moves suggests that the centres were the issue. 

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1352064 26-Jul-2015 17:22
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No argument, the centers (starting) didnt have a great game, however covering full back 10m behind your definisve line means follow the ball, he didnt read the game, hence not being anywhere near the attacking player.  He may as well go stand in the line if he cant cover and read the game.  I see you didnt comment on the first example, or his kicking game, would be keen to hear thoughts on these.

The issue with Dagg is simple, he isn't a utility so if he is in the side he needs to start, cant afford a specialist full back on the bench.

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  Reply # 1352074 26-Jul-2015 17:42
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itxtme: No argument, the centers (starting) didnt have a great game, however covering full back 10m behind your definisve line means follow the ball, he didnt read the game, hence not being anywhere near the attacking player.  He may as well go stand in the line if he cant cover and read the game.  I see you didnt comment on the first example, or his kicking game, would be keen to hear thoughts on these.

The issue with Dagg is simple, he isn't a utility so if he is in the side he needs to start, cant afford a specialist full back on the bench.


You see lots of examples of fullback coming up into the line and cutting off attackers before they break, which is what he's doing here. He's just made to look bad by horrendous defense inside him.

Not disputing the poor pass, just your interpretation of this particular play. I didn't think he had a particularly good or bad game, I thought he was OK but not spectacular. I would like to see how Savea, Smith and Piutau go, and if it was me I'd play them against Australia. I think Smith is more of a running fullback than a playmaker, which is what Dagg does when he's playing well. Dagg can also be a bit more physical, just because he's a bigger man. It'd be interesting to see the contrast.

I think  Smith, Savea, Piutau, Dagg and maybe Corey Jane is a great squad for the world cup - you have to have two specialist full backs in the squad, just like you need 3 half backs and 3 hookers, in case someone blows a hamstring the day of the match. Who you play can be horses for courses or it can be dictated by what pattern is played. It's not a bad problem to have.


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  Reply # 1352162 26-Jul-2015 21:02
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if one were neutral (not many on this thread are), they'd say that the Boks played better overall, but the ABs had more gas and a world class bench. who cares who won, it's world cup year.

I'm beginning to think that those who had outstanding Super form aren't quite up to speed at test level, and those who held back during Super season are cranking up a notch.



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  Reply # 1352372 27-Jul-2015 10:29
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We have plenty of other options and don't need him.  How anybody could pick Dagg in a back three combo when you have Savea, Piutau and Smith would leave me speechless.


Doesn't seem like it. 


After Sopoaga's showing I think Slade may be a bit nervous about his place in the squad, although Slade has a proven quality about him and it would be nice to see more of Sopoaga.  I believe if Hansen gives Sopoaga a run against Aussie, and he takes his chances, then Slade may miss out.


I'd consider that to be pretty unfair because as you have said, Slade has a proven ability. I think Sopoanga played well, but it think Slade would have played as well in the same position. I agree Carter wouldn't have taken the line same way and that wouldn't have allowed for that try, but who knows what else might have been created?

One thing that MIGHT count against Slade is that he isn't staying with NZR and that may count for Sopoanga.








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  Reply # 1352373 27-Jul-2015 10:31
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joker97: if one were neutral (not many on this thread are), they'd say that the Boks played better overall, but the ABs had more gas and a world class bench. who cares who won, it's world cup year.

I'm beginning to think that those who had outstanding Super form aren't quite up to speed at test level, and those who held back during Super season are cranking up a notch.


Agree with this, Boks played better for most of the match. I don't think they are done improving, and as I predicted, Handre Pollard is going to be a big problem for teams in the RWC.

Burger was sensational for the Boks as was Kreall. Habana was VERY lucky to stay on the field, he seemed very fired up for the wrong reasons all match.



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  Reply # 1352374 27-Jul-2015 10:33
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Handle9:
itxtme: No argument, the centers (starting) didnt have a great game, however covering full back 10m behind your definisve line means follow the ball, he didnt read the game, hence not being anywhere near the attacking player.  He may as well go stand in the line if he cant cover and read the game.  I see you didnt comment on the first example, or his kicking game, would be keen to hear thoughts on these.

The issue with Dagg is simple, he isn't a utility so if he is in the side he needs to start, cant afford a specialist full back on the bench.


You see lots of examples of fullback coming up into the line and cutting off attackers before they break, which is what he's doing here. He's just made to look bad by horrendous defense inside him.

Not disputing the poor pass, just your interpretation of this particular play. I didn't think he had a particularly good or bad game, I thought he was OK but not spectacular. I would like to see how Savea, Smith and Piutau go, and if it was me I'd play them against Australia. I think Smith is more of a running fullback than a playmaker, which is what Dagg does when he's playing well. Dagg can also be a bit more physical, just because he's a bigger man. It'd be interesting to see the contrast.

I think  Smith, Savea, Piutau, Dagg and maybe Corey Jane is a great squad for the world cup - you have to have two specialist full backs in the squad, just like you need 3 half backs and 3 hookers, in case someone blows a hamstring the day of the match. Who you play can be horses for courses or it can be dictated by what pattern is played. It's not a bad problem to have.



Agree with all that, I am keen to have a look at the stats of the game.



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  Reply # 1352394 27-Jul-2015 10:48
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Handle9:
itxtme:
Dingbatt: Edit: I thought Dagg had a good game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hiwa-7TMrU4

Really?  Had some good touches, but he also made some bad decisions.  Great catch under the highball then throws a hospital pass to Kerian Reid which immediately results in a try (1.33)

5.45 in he comes up to the line, and misses his man = try.  Better view at 6.22, he is so far off reading the game.  Thats 14 points..  Sorry he isnt up to scratch.  Like I said last week, with so much space against the Argies he looked good, when the games tighter, not so much.

Cant say I even remember his kicking, which is apparently amazing.  The public is tough on him because we can all remember what he was like in 2010 



OK I'll bite. I think that in this instance you are dead wrong. Dagg has drifted wide because the centre was covered by both Smith and Nonu who made a complete hash of the tackle on him. Meanwhile the you have the I think full back (I think, can't see his jersey) and wing in oodles of space with only Piatau marking them. Putting the try on Dagg is BS. Nonu and Smith have both gone onto one man and both missed. They have responsibility for the try.

If Dagg doesn't drift out they go around the back, score in the corner and your pillorying Dagg for covering a runner which Conrad Smith and Nonu have both marked.

Incidentally I think that SA did a really good job manipulating space and creating numbers in the centres today. Given they scored twice through the centres with similar moves suggests that the centres were the issue. 


Good Analysis. 

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  Reply # 1352415 27-Jul-2015 11:11
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Centres were the issue - it Seems Conrad Smith is a little out of sorts. Hopefully with his proven class, he can come back because it is not often you see players get past him.
The Bok centre pairing were awesome, and they are going to be a handful for quite some time to come. They certainly showed up Nonu and Smith this weekend.

Reid and McCaw had good games. Messam, I'm not so sure about - I think the ABs missed Kaino this weekend. James Broadhurst didn't have a stellar introduction to test football and I don't see him playing too much more this year (hopefully Whitelock and Retallick stay uninjured!).



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  Reply # 1352426 27-Jul-2015 11:19
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trig42: Centres were the issue - it Seems Conrad Smith is a little out of sorts. Hopefully with his proven class, he can come back because it is not often you see players get past him.
The Bok centre pairing were awesome, and they are going to be a handful for quite some time to come. They certainly showed up Nonu and Smith this weekend.


I wondered if he was sick or Injured? I say him post match and he looked like a Panda bear! His eyes both looked like they were black?


Reid and McCaw had good games. Messam, I'm not so sure about - I think the ABs missed Kaino this weekend. James Broadhurst didn't have a stellar introduction to test football and I don't see him playing too much more this year (hopefully Whitelock and Retallick stay uninjured!).


I'd also be surprised. Hansen has been inclined to give players a few chances to get into games, so he might get 1 more start, but with Romano also a contender, I can't see JB going to the RWC, but may get called on if Retallick or Whitelock get Injured. Whitelock hasn't been as amazing this year as last, but I do get the distinct feeling
that a few players are reserving themselves somewhat.



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  Reply # 1352488 27-Jul-2015 12:40
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For those so critical of Dagg, do you think Ben Smith did a good Job in defence against the Springboks first try?

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  Reply # 1352506 27-Jul-2015 13:01
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networkn: For those so critical of Dagg, do you think Ben Smith did a good Job in defence against the Springboks first try?


That's the one set up by Dagg's hospital pass to Read?

Kriel was Ben Smiths man and he stayed on him.

The winger was outside Kriel and Messam was the last man covering.

Smith was relying on the insides to do their job and shuffle across, problem was there was only fatties there.

So if he had have taken Le Roux then that left a two on one for Messam to deal with only about 7 metres out from the line.

He did what you're told to do from the first time you strap on your boots. Number off, stay on your man and rely on the insides to drift and cover the inside runners.





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  Reply # 1352508 27-Jul-2015 13:06
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tukapa1:
networkn: For those so critical of Dagg, do you think Ben Smith did a good Job in defence against the Springboks first try?


That's the one set up by Dagg's hospital pass to Read?

Kriel was Ben Smiths man and he stayed on him.

The winger was outside Kriel and Messam was the last man covering.

Smith was relying on the insides to do their job and shuffle across, problem was there was only fatties there.

So if he had have taken Le Roux then that left a two on one for Messam to deal with only about 7 metres out from the line.

He did what you're told to do from the first time you strap on your boots. Number off, stay on your man and rely on the insides to drift and cover the inside runners.




And people call me biased?

I believe you lambasted Dagg for failing to stop a try when the inside Centres failed to do their job, but BS gets a pass for the similar thing?



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  Reply # 1352525 27-Jul-2015 13:24
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networkn: For those so critical of Dagg, do you think Ben Smith did a good Job in defence against the Springboks first try?


You're right he wasn't at his best, he would be better off in his preferred position of full back. 

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